Stock or not (1 Viewer)

[MOTOV8R]

When a vehicle becomes a "classic", the stock form always comes out ahead. You can hear all you want on "Mods" etc. but the stock will always come out ahead. Now, the "Modded" vehicle will also have a following , and there is the enthusiast who wants that and will pay well, but for the actual marketplace stock will always win.
Both are great , but classics , even if restored to stock condition, will command more than restomod.

This seems to be true for all but the very high end custom builders like icon and the FJ company who's cruisers outpace the fully stock restorations in terms of selling price. Seems the depreciation on vehicles from these seller's though is extremely steep.

 

[oregon fj]

This question is broader than Land Cruisers, but the answer is pretty much always the same, whether it concerns muscle cars, sports cars or 4x4s. Once a vehicle has become of age, stock (or nearly stock) examples are easier to sell and bring better results. A big issue with modded vehicles is that while the mods may be good, desirable items, a modded vehicle has a much smaller target audience - it appeals only to those people who like the same mods that the builder likes.

I’ve dealt with this several times over the years, as my hobby is to buy, refresh and sell classic vehicles. It doesn’t matter if I’m working on an MG, Porsche, VW, 240Z or a Cruiser, to be easy to sell and bring best value a classic vehicle needs to be mostly stock. You can include a few recognized improvements if they are hidden, and don’t change the essential character of the vehicle, but significant mods need to be subtle, extremely popular changes that are easily reversible.

For an FJ40, things like power steering or disc brakes (which are improvements that aren’t terribly visible) are the types of things I might consider on a rig I was refreshing. Or a mild lift and taller tires.

Then again, the earlier the example vehicle is, the more value to keep it closer to stock. I might do a lift and disc brakes on a mid-70s 40, but the early ‘64 I actually have will be kept essentially stock.

 

[1969FJ]

This seems to be true for all but the very high end custom builders like icon and the FJ company who's cruisers outpace the fully stock restorations in terms of selling price. Seems the depreciation on vehicles from these seller's though is extremely steep.

Very true. The big difference in a single restomod and a company like ICON is the marketing. If a custom builder can create a name for itself, and follow up with all the future connections, it will out perform the garage restomod.
Yes, the resale is much lower because after the initial sale, it is just another restomod looking for the right buyer.

 

[Living in the Past]

Very true. The big difference in a single restomod and a company like ICON is the marketing. If a custom builder can create a name for itself, and follow up with all the future connections, it will out perform the garage restomod.
Yes, the resale is much lower because after the initial sale, it is just another restomod looking for the right buyer.

Icon is not a restored classic but a brand new vehicle using a old vehicle's title. That explains the drop in value. Buy any new car it's going to go down in valve a long time before it might start to go up. Except is if the demand is much higher than the supply. Haven't paid much attention to the FJ Company. Don't those have a modern Toyota drivetrain? Believe marketing has a lot to do with it. But at that price the demand isn't high to keep the value of a used one. Have that kind of money and wanting a modern drivetrain you'll buy a new one. If your buying used you wouldn't pay the price of new if new ones are still available. That sets a restored FJ40 in a different category, they haven't made new ones in a long time.

 

[scrapdaddy]

Let me try to add my 2 cents...
Seems most the guys here saying to leave it stock because of the great value in doing so, but what are we talking about in real money a grand or two. I don't mean to say we all own junkers, but really how much fun would you give up over the life of owning a vehicle because you have to keep it stock in order to maybe make a few bucks down the line. I bought a couple 1971 FJ55s in order to build one to travel with and camp along the way. 71s have a three on the tree, no power anything and no a/c. Leave it stock and be miserable traveling alone because the wife won't go just to maybe make a few bucks. Rusted up ( I mean patined ) stock 55s aren't worth much, nor is a 40. Everybody has their own meaning of the word stock and how it relates to making money. Stock is stock, not small improvements along the way. I mean where do you stop, small lift, bigger tires, new paint or a five speed...might as well throw in the LS and really travel nice.

Personally I don't really think it matters what you do to them they aren't all going be big money makers, do what you want and enjoy it.

 

[TCEd]

Maybe it has to do with how much nostalgia vs. practicality a buyer wants ? I remember many years ago people were wedging Chevy motors into the Austin Healey 3000 and the outrage was significant. Funny thing is most were doing the swap to get away from Lucas electrical systems that left them stranded and confused not necessarily for additional power.
ed

 

[coonassjohn]

hey cool paint scheme you got there, love to see more of it, thanks

Have a lot of pics under mid life crisis in 40's tech. Thanks, JL

 

[tls3601]

I like what @scrapdaddy has said and he makes a very good point. I guess to me the true essence of the FJ40 is that stock drivetrain. The engineers at Toyota nailed it when they mated the Torquey 2F to perfectly matched gear ratio's and created a legend. To me that is a FJ40. I have been in several 40's with very well done V8 conversions but none of them put the smile on my face like the original drivetrain and that pull of idle of the straight 6, unmistakable!

 

[fjwagon]

If you collecting or if are a purist chances are you want an original fj. However, there are a lot of people that will pay a little more to have creature comforts like LED lightng, A/C, a factory power steering setup on their cruisers.

 

[Skydog]

Very true. The big difference in a single restomod and a company like ICON is the marketing. If a custom builder can create a name for itself, and follow up with all the future connections, it will out perform the garage restomod.
Yes, the resale is much lower because after the initial sale, it is just another restomod looking for the right buyer.

I agree. - - However, I say it has more to do with the simple concept of a 'brand.' TLC and the FJ Company have been working arduously on creating a specific 'brand,' for themselves, that people can reliably "buy into." Another example of a 'brand' (scaled-down from TLC & FJ Company), that comes immediately to my own mind is that of Chris Wade (@Wadesters), who restores, to a high degree of skill and perfection, a consistent output of rebuilt vehicles. For buyers, Chris has created a 'brand' (although there are several of such upon this board) ... Sure, a buyer is seeking a specific type vehicle (for either pleasure or investment or both), but are seeking -and willing to pay for- "the brand."

~Skydog

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

I've driven my V8 FJ40, A friend's 2F FJ40, and ridden in an OM617 converted rig as well. They all had their own personality. There is something truly more "classic" in the feeling of the 2F, it just feels "right." I still love my V8, and all the power-on-demand convenience that a 350 brings when driving around town, but it definitely doesn't quite have that Land Cruiser feel. The OM617 has it's own personality as well. Almost felt slower, definitely had that diesel "clank" to it, but was a pleasant truck to drive around in.

Bottom line - there's a buyer for any of these out there somewhere, you just have to be patient and find the right one. That said, I will have to disagree with @scrapdaddy that the difference is "a couple of grand one way or another." Once these trucks in stock form started going for 60-100k at auction, I think there is a definite, tens-of-thousands gap between stock and modified driveline rigs. I will agree though that if you amortize even $10-$20,000 over the length of time you plan to own the rig, and it's usability for your own purposes and needs, even that cost gap probably isn't significant. Where it truly comes into play are the folks in the business to profit - buy the rig, restore it, and flip it for profit...Or the guys who can't seem to settle on one classic and wind up buying/selling their projects every couple of years. I think those last two folks stand to lose significantly more by diverging from stock.

 

[White Stripe]

Stock definitely has its appeal. I really appreciate a well restored 40. However I don't really care to own a stock 40. I like to see amazing sights after battling a tough trail out in the wilderness. So that's what I built my cruiser for.

 

[scrapdaddy]

Just a question....How many guys on this forum have the 60 to 100 grand type stock vehicle and how many of those really use them? I think most of us have daily drivers that really aren't that valuable.

 

[Racer65]

Very true. The big difference in a single restomod and a company like ICON is the marketing. If a custom builder can create a name for itself, and follow up with all the future connections, it will out perform the garage restomod.
Yes, the resale is much lower because after the initial sale, it is just another restomod looking for the right buyer.

I think marketing is a factor, but people also pay for credibility. When you buy from a reputable restorer you know you're getting a well engineered vehicle, as opposed to a potential hack job or lipstick on a who knows what. How many times have we seen rigs being marketed as fully restored being picked apart by the MUD experts? To the untrained eyes, it is simply too much risk to rely on just marketing when shelling out a lot of dough. It must be backed by credibility.

 

[DSRTRDR]

I am not thinking he had anywhere near that into it, seriously.

how can you know ?

I have no idea what the $ numbers are, but I do know that ftbshop does damn good work - seen it go on in person

 

[1969FJ]

Just a question....How many guys on this forum have the 60 to 100 grand type stock vehicle and how many of those really use them? I think most of us have daily drivers that really aren't that valuable.

Good question. What I can say is stock vehicles without all the changes will boil down to the same place as original 1960's muscle cars. Same. If the mud daily drivers are stock, keep them that way.

 

[Racer65]

Just a question....How many guys on this forum have the 60 to 100 grand type stock vehicle and how many of those really use them? I think most of us have daily drivers that really aren't that valuable.

A new 4Runner is probably worth more than a typical FJ40, but I bet to most of us the 40 is the most treasured. Whatever state of mod or condition a 40 is, I think the days of hacking or trashing one are well behind us, and preservation / restoration is now the norm. The more the original character of the vehicle is kept, the more treasured it tends to be by the market at large.

 

[1969FJ]

Stock definitely has its appeal. I really appreciate a well restored 40. However I don't really care to own a stock 40. I like to see amazing sights after battling a tough trail out in the wilderness. So that's what I built my cruiser for.View attachment 1602069

So, you are the restomod candidate. As was said here, there are those , but high end auctions will be the proof.

 

[DSRTRDR]

Just a question....How many guys on this forum have the 60 to 100 grand type stock vehicle and how many of those really use them? I think most of us have daily drivers that really aren't that valuable.

flat out: none of my/our vehicles are worth (or have ever been) more than 20K at all in insurance terms, most of them below - heck, the only vehicle I ever bought new off the dealer's lot was 15K; the thing ran some 20 years ('92-'12; and is still on the road, from occasional sightings) for just about a total of 4K in maintenance (not counting a set of tires once) and sure it didn't owe me anything by the time we ditched it to the indy mechanic who wanted it for his daughter - do I need to mention it was an entirely Japanese-built vehicle ? . . .

I don't daily-drive my 40, nor the LX, and yeah, we don't daily-drive the 80, either - but the fundamental consideration to me has never been monetary value

what matters most to me is what these vehicles have enabled me to see and experience, and you'll find plenty of threads all over this here forum to document my travels . . .

pics to follow . . .

 

[1969FJ]

A new 4Runner is probably worth more than a typical FJ40, but I bet to most of us the 40 will be the most treasured. Whatever state of mod or condition a 40 is, I think the days of hacking or trashing one are behind us, and preservation / restoration is now the norm. The more you keep the original character of the vehicle, the more treasured it tends to be by the owner as well as the market at large.

Correct, it is the treasures that will go up. I believe as years pass, FJ40 will increase, in stock form the highest. When I was younger a Hemi Cuda was normal price, today, over a million.