steering problems (1 Viewer)

[notaf-ingjeep]

Well, I got the bound up box to break loose yesterday! It didn't take much, I felt it loosen working it back and forth with my hands. So I took a hammer and lightly tapped on the pitman arm, and it came loose. I then tore the whole thing down. It was rust causing it to bind, moisture had gotten in there and locked it up. Doesn't look too serious though, I think everything will clean up nice. I have no idea how I will get all the ball bearings back in the sucker, though. It wont be an easy task, but I know it can be done. Grease usually helps hold all the B.B.'s in there when loading them in. It can't be a good idea to load it with grease, the P.S. fluid should do all the lubricating.

I want to try and port the box out for the hydro assist, so having it torn down will help. I don't think you necessarily need to take it all the way apart, like I did. The veins are pretty closed off from the rest of the box. I think if your careful you could probably get the chips out with a magnet. You most definitely don't want to leave any shavings in there, better safe than sorry. It will be better torn down completely for clamping it down on the mill. I'll be able to rinse it out, in order to get all the chips out as well. It had to be torn apart for cleaning because of the rust anyway. I will disassemble the "internal steering shaft" part today. I need to be sure all the bearings are rust free, I want to separate all the seals first. I don't want to damage the seals while cleaning it with solvents! Some cleaning solvents will warp and eat up plastics, I don't want to risk that.

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

Just If anyone is interested, I plan on porting it like the box in the photos posted by Tapage. If the photo's don't work, the link posted by Bustanutly will take you there. There are a couple different boxes shown, it is the bottom 2 photos of the boxes. The Scout II box is shown mounted on the outside of a frame rail in both photos. I may do it a little different depending on how I want to run the lines. It seems best in those 2 particular areas. I feel comfortable that I can hit the veins for sure there. I feel best going off the obvious casting points.

You can't really see what is going on in there, even torn down completely. I don't know how deep the veins are, I don't want to drill into the other side accidentially. So I will most definitely use a small center drill and 3/16" bit for a pilot hole. Once I'm sure I have hit the spot I'll drill it with the 7/16" bit. If I miss, a 3/16" hole should weld up "easily" with the tig at the shop. I don't know, but I may have to grind down the 1/4" npt tap so it wont hit the bottom.

 

[inkpot]

Howdy! Diesel fuel works real nice as a solvent. Pretty friendly to plastic and rubber seals. Not really a big fire hazzard compared to a lot of the aresol cans of solvent/carb cleaner/brake cleaner. John

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

Howdy! Diesel fuel works real nice as a solvent. Pretty friendly to plastic and rubber seals. Not really a big fire hazzard compared to a lot of the aresol cans of solvent/carb cleaner/brake cleaner. John

Yeah diesel works good, I will use the Safety Clean parts washer at the shop. It's pretty evil for getting the grime out. It also has a brush fixture that helps a lot. It smells like diesel, kind of, but will not be nice to the seals. Good advice though, thanks!!

 

[Tapage]

take a few pics of your porting process ..

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

take a few pics of your porting process ..

No digital camera, sorry. I am just about to start the process. It is far more simple to do than I had first thought. It took me a minuet to figure out exactly how the whole thing works..... The top port which is for left turn, there is a ton of room for error. There is a step in there right in front of the bearing surface for the ball screw. It is about an 1" or 1.5" wide, so as long as you hit in that space your good. There is no vein on the top port you drill all the way through.

The lower port is easy too, but it is a vein, so you don't want to go too deep. It is drilled all the way through from the end I am porting. There is a small cap pressed in the end in order to block it off. It's probably like a 1/4" hole, off the top of my head. So you can see what your drilling into. I'll give an update on it when it's done, and I can verify all this info.

The link posted by Bustanutly has a schematic of how it works. It is easier to understand when your looking at the real thing. The fluid changes chambers by the ball screw. The ball screw will shift back and forth about a 1/8", this blocks the holes or opens them. That is how it controls which chamber is pressurized.

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

Just finished!

I think everything went well. My threads gage perfectly, and they are positioned just like in the photo already posted.

I had to grind a tap down to get it deep enough to engage properly. I drilled the lower port to the bottom of the vein in the center. I wasn't going to drill any deeper and the tap hit bottom too soon. At first I tapped it and was about 1/2 turn with the gage shallow, so I had to grind it. Then I ran the tap a little deeper by hand. Didn't ruin the tap.

It should work perfectly, now I need to modify the P.S. pump for more pressure!

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

My dad gave me some good advice today. I have been worried about loading all the B.B.'s back in the ball screw. There are 22 of them I kept wondering if grease would cause problems if I loaded it up to help hold the B.B's in. My dad suggested that I use a magnet instead! I haven't tried it yet, but it's a smart idea. I have a couple strong magnets I think would do it. I don't know if I'll get to it today but I will report how it goes.

Can any one tell me how long of hydraulic ram they are using on there cruiser axles? I was hoping to buy a nicer ram that is built to the proper travel length. I can buy a cheaper ram and modify it to the proper length, I'd rather not. Depends on the cost!

It needs to be right, I know my buddy's mini truck wasn't, he ripped his steering box apart. His hydro assist pushed right through the steering. I think he had adjusted the stops on the axle to compensate for the ram. But it was too much for the box, it wasn't capable of that much travel. So his gave out at the box, but could damage steering arms, knuckles, ect.... I ended up porting a whole new box for him.

 

[Tapage]

I use a 6" X 1.5" and hope I choose a 7" X 1.5" maybe next time ..

 

[bustanutley]

6" x 1.75" w/ marlin crawler high steer arms

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

Cool, thanks guys! It sounds like I can go with a pretty standard size on the ram. Not sure if I'll go 1.75" or what, but 6" travel sound safe. I was planning to do a rear steer with the tie rod behind the axle. I think now I'm going to build some of my own hy-steer arms. I am low on $, I have some material laying around at the house that would be perfect. It's 316 stainless steel, 2" x .750" plates, I think I would need to measure. I looked at the possibility before and they are just wide enough to do the job. 316 is good stuff, pretty close to 4130 chrome alloy, as far as the overall strength.

I was thinking of building it so the ram mounts to the driver side arm in the same position as the drag link mounts to the passenger side arm. With the new aluminum bars I'm gonna use I really want to mount the ram to something strong. So either the steering arm or use a tie rod end with the drag link mount on the shank. I'd rather go to the steering arm. Seems best if they are balanced forces, the ram and drag link from the steering box. If the steering arms mirror each other, the two points of the steering forces will be very balanced with respect to the knuckles.

I fear the issues with clearance I have now when it's articulated. If I build my own arms I can get everything positioned the best it can be. Also I really want to link the front suspension one day. I'd rather not have to do this work again, or move anything around. I'll try and build it so I can fit any suspension mounts built in the future. MT TUBECRAFTER has a build up posted and his 3-link looks sick in front. I don't know how well it would work, but it would be easy to fit.

 

[notaf-ingjeep]

I got my steering box reassembled yesterday. The magnet idea I wrote about before didn't work. I stuck as many magnets as I could fit and it wasn't strong enough to hold all the balls in. I ended up packing the ball screw with grease and also the return tube. I filled the return tube with the B.B.'s first and then stuck the remaining ones in the grease. I used the magnets as well but I think the grease did all the work. I was very careful while threading the screw in, and it went right together. I know that the power steering fluid does all the lubricating. I just couldn't get it done without some thick grease to hold the balls in securely.

I don't think the grease will cause any problems. Anyone think differently? I just don't see how else to do it. I guess I could wash most of the grease out if I had too.

It seems like there is a proper way to install the pitman arm shaft. The gears are tapered, and need to engage just right. They bind if not, I noticed that with the aluminum cap off it binds. There is a stud that runs out of the top of the shaft and threads through the cap. When you pull the cap off the shaft falls all the way to the bottom of the gears. It binds because the gears are too tight. So when you install the cap, it threads directly on to this stud. Then there is a nyloc nut on the stud after. Depending on how much you thread the cap on the higher it hold the shaft, and the higher the gears engage. To high and the gears have slop, too low and binding. I set my gears the best I could based on feel, they turn smooth and don't bind. There is a little bit of slop in it, very little. I compared it to my other box that was in better shape to begin with, and it has slop as well.

The stud is built so it spins freely from the shaft, and it's cut for an allen wrench in the end. I would not use the allen wrench to set it alone. You don't want to torque the cast alum. threads too much. Set it with the cap it's self by threading it more or less after it has contacted the sealing surface. If you turn it 1/2 turn so it's backwards you can see the gears through the gap. Adjust the gear position by how far you thread the cap on, more threads the higher it will set the gears. Once the gears are happy, turn the cap 1/2 turn, and readjust with the allen wrench. Install the other 4 bolts, and then the nyloc nut on the stud.

Does anyone know if there is a more proper way to install this shaft, than what I've done?

It seems like it could be a pretty technical thing. I'm confident that my box will function well, but there has to be a more proper way to do this.