Starting Problem.....Bad Fuel? (1 Viewer)

[BigRogers79]

So I was on a 13 hour return road trip from Colorado yesterday, back home to DFW. We stopped for gas in a small town to top off the tank (roughly half a tank). Hoped back in the truck and drove roughly 75 miles or so, and pulled into a rest stop to let the dogs out and walk around. Roughly 20 minutes later hop back in the truck and it wouldn't turn over.

This is the first time the truck has given me any hesitation starting. The battery has been recently replaced and appeared to be good as we could roll down all the windows, and turn on/off radio & ac, etc. Starter seemed to be engaging and trying to start the truck (even checked the relay under the hood to ensure good contact). There hadn't been any loss of power prior so i didn't think it was a spark plug issue/fouled. After process of elimination I ruled it to be the engine was not receiving fuel. We tried starting it 5 or 6 times, and then finally it turned over and ran.

Now that we had the engine running, we drove into a Wichita Falls, roughly 70 miles down the road. While on the road the truck held RPM's great, no sluggish acceleration, and did 75 mph without any issue. Pulled into a quality fuel provider, killed the engine and restarted it just to see what it did; i was relieved when it started with no issue at all. Filled up the tank and drove on into DFW.

I am ruling it as bad fuel, but wanted to see if anyone else has comment on some other items to look at. I am heading to the hill country next weekend and would like to have a firm grasp on the issue I experienced and fill confident that was the issue.

 

[PDPerry]

Did the starter turn-over or just engage?

 

[flintknapper]

Please clarify:

Crank/Turn Over= Engine rotating by means of the starter

Run/Start= Engine is running per normal combustion and timing.

Which of these did you have an issue with?

 

[BigRogers79]

Did the starter turn-over or just engage?

Not sure if I know the difference. When starting, you could hear the starter trying to engage, but that is about all I know. How/what do i need to do check to be sure and how would i be able to tell the difference?

 

[BigRogers79]

Please clarify:

Crank/Turn Over= Engine rotating by means of the starter

Run/Start= Engine is running per normal combustion and timing.

Which of these did you have an issue with?

The engine was "turning over", rotating by means of the starter. However it would not "run"; failing as soon as the started completed its cycle.

 

[jLB]

Other explanation might be immobilizer/EFI relay issue...

 

[flintknapper]

The engine was "turning over", rotating by means of the starter. However it would not "run"; failing as soon as the started completed its cycle.

Gotcha. So it sounds as if the engine was turning over (cranking), but simply would not fire up (start and run).

IF the engine was turning over at normal speed (didn't sound sluggish) AND the starter engaged immediately (didn't click first) then we will assume there is nothing wrong with either the starter or your battery.

Since you had recently topped off your tank with fuel from a source that likely does little business, I would suspect (as you have) a fuel problem (probably water in the fuel).

If it were me...I would add a bottle of one of the water dissipating fuel additives and see the if the problem abates. It is quite possible you got some water in the fuel tank, the symptoms along with the timing of the problem all make sense.

If it happens again, I'd check to see if you have any DTC (codes) present.

 

[flintknapper]

Other explanation might be immobilizer/EFI relay issue...

Yes, would be the next thing to check.

 

[BigRogers79]

Other explanation might be immobilizer/EFI relay issue...

Okay.....tell me more! How do I test? or is it something I can easily replace?

 

[BigRogers79]

Gotcha. So it sounds as if the engine was turning over (cranking), but simply would not fire up (start and run).

IF the engine was turning over at normal speed (didn't sound sluggish) AND the starter engaged immediately (didn't click first) then we will assume there is nothing wrong with either the starter or your battery.

Since you had recently topped off your tank with fuel from a source that likely does little business, I would suspect (as you have) a fuel problem (probably water in the fuel).

If it were me...I would add a bottle of one of the water dissipating fuel additives and see the if the problem abates. It is quite possible you got some water in the fuel tank, the symptoms along with the timing of the problem all make sense.

If it happens again, I'd check to see if you have any DTC (codes) present.

@flintknapper thanks for the great advice! I will put in some additive and see where that takes me.

 

[jLB]

Okay.....tell me more! How do I test? or is it something I can easily replace?

There are a number of threads on the subject, I like this one:
My immobilizer fix

Post #13 explains how to test (while you are experiencing the problem)

 

[BigRogers79]

There are a number of threads on the subject, I like this one:
My immobilizer fix

Post #13 explains how to test (while you are experiencing the problem)

@jLB thanks, I'm new to the 100 series and definitely new to the problems and fixes! Thanks for sharing!

 

[2001LC]

You've been given some good possibilities above.

Can I ask what year is your truck? I ask because 03-07 over filling (not stopping at first auto pump shut off) gas tank may flood charcoal canister which was moved to rear in 2003.

One other is gas cap loose, tight until you hear a click.

 

[BigRogers79]

You've been given some good possibilities above.

Can I ask what year is your truck? I ask because 03-07 over filling (not stopping at first auto pump shut off) gas tank may flood charcoal canister which was moved to rear in 2003.

One other is gas cap loose, tight until you hear a click.

@2001LC the truck is an 2006 LX470 with roughly 163k miles on the odo. I don't typically overfill, but now that you mention it, I may have on this particular occasion. In doing so, this would cause the charcoal canister to become saturated and eliminating the truck from starting/running? I was under the impression a charcoal canister almost always had fuel within it. Am I wrong?

 

[2001LC]

@2001LC the truck is an 2006 LX470 with roughly 163k miles on the odo. I don't typically overfill, but now that you mention it, I may have on this particular occasion. In doing so, this would cause the charcoal canister to become saturated and eliminating the truck from starting/running? I was under the impression a charcoal canister almost always had fuel within it. Am I wrong?

Read your Toyota Land Cruiser/LX470 OM, it warns not to over fill. It could cause a no start condition. Just filling before ascending a mountain pass some have reported stalling (vapor lock).

It's my understanding charcoal canister only has vapor in it. Liquid fuel will flood canister.

In my 01 I've always pulled the trigger on gas pump two or three times after auto shut off. A habit I've learned not to carry over into newer models. I've actually run out off gas (in 01) as I pulled up to pump, double pull filled, drove 30' to change angle, re topped to fill neck, lines, filter, fuel rails. Got 25.8 US GAL in, do that on 03 thru 07 100 series and may be costly.

 

[BigRogers79]

Read your Toyota Land Cruiser/LX470 OM, it warns not to over fill. It could cause a no start condition. Just filling before ascending a mountain pass some have reported stalling (vapor lock).

It's my understanding charcoal canister only has vapor in it. Liquid fuel will flood canister.

In my 01 I've always pulled the trigger on gas pump two or three times after auto shut off. A habit I've learned not to carry over into newer models. I've actually run out off gas (in 01) as I pulled up to pump, double pull filled, drove 30' to change angle, re topped to fill neck, lines, filter, fuel rails. Got 25.8 US GAL in, do that on 03 thru 07 100 series and may be costly.

Thanks so much for the feed back. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experiences.

 

[kklaus121]

BigRogers79,
it could be helpful for you to read through this thread:
Engine shutting off during long trips.

 

[AimCOtaco]

Sounds more like the fuel pressure/canister issue, slowly remove cap, wait 10 minutes or so and try again.
If it's happening both while hot and after sitting overnight then I'd look at the Immobilizer/EFI topics.

 

[BigRogers79]

BigRogers79,
it could be helpful for you to read through this thread:
Engine shutting off during long trips.

Wow thanks for sharing that link to the thread. Just read the whole thing. Lots of similarities, i noticed you chimed in with a similar issue a few years back.

By reading the post below, have the two items you have completed (replaced Fuel Pump and Cam Position Sensor) fix the issues you where having?

Also what year/make 100 series do you have?

pcut, I think you are saying that you replaced the cam position sensor and it has not solved your problem, is this correct? This is discouraging to me as I have had two issues.
Issue #1 is a stalling problem when running in hot weather coupled with a gain in elevation. This problem seems to be solved by replacement of fuel pump and fuel filter. I replaced the gas cap as a starting point and it did not help. Replacing the fuel pump seems to be what it takes to solve this issue.
Issue #2 is a no start issue when it is hot and again seems to be coupled with an elevation gain. I replaced the cam position sensor with the 90k service last summer and I have not had this issue since.

Have you had this same problem as I have had in issue #2?

 

[flintknapper]

Yes, lots of helpful suggestions, but before this all gets too complicated...I'd just recommend treating the fuel you have in the tank now, let the tank become nearly empty, refill from a known high volume seller and see if the issue returns. IF not...then likely you had some water/other in the fuel and no other remedy is needed.

IF the problem reoccurs...then we can look at the other possibilities. But it doesn't hurt to study up on them in the meantime.

Hope it turns out to be something simple for you.


Flint.