Starting a 1973 FJ40 Rebuild (1 Viewer)

[DSB345]

That was a good post, Sarge

Yes , bore-cleaning Ed's Red recipe works amazingly well on stuck fasteners . The acetone in it makes it penetrate so much better than anything a retailer could sell safely - just be careful with it .

Mark made a really good point I missed - JIS screwdrivers . In my sig line is a link to the Vessel drivers site and a discount code for MUD I had one of their reps set up for us . With the correct driver for those cross headed JIS screws (not Philips !!!) and the correct penetrating oil most fasteners can be saved and re-plated . Finding JIS compatible oval heads and such is very difficult outside of Toyota , Honda or the Japanese bike manufacturers . Finding JIS standard aeromotive size heads for hex head bolts/nuts is also extremely difficult and expensive , especially in stainless steel . Aeromotive fasteners what many manufacturers like Toyota specified for their products - this results in smaller wrench sizes for a given bolt diameter - such as 12mm heads on 8mm bolts . Another issue is almost all fasteners on Cruisers are metric fine thread - they pretty much self-lock and can handle much higher loads , which is why they are so very hard to break loose . Add that to everything else and it's the reason I drive people to try as hard as possible to save those stock fasteners or replace with stock if available ....

Sarge

 

[BridgeGuy]

Sarge, thanks so much. I thought I knew a lot about fasteners but I'm rapidly being humbled by the JIS standard. I REALLY wish I had known more before I got started as getting thr "right" hardware is rapidly becoming entertaining.

I wanted to post a pic of the switch bezels as before I go crazy with a set of snap ring pliers, I'm hoping someone can tell me the right way to get these off. I've found the set screws (searched a lot for knob specific info) but the threads I'm finding are talking about a regular hex nut being behind the knob and I don't have a one. Any thoughts before I accidentally screw these up? Is there a spanner to pull these or...?

The exhaust looks like it may have had a wee bit of a restriction as well. That said easiest exhaust system I've ever pulled. The studs didn't even break at the manifold! (Thanks to Sarge and some Ed's Red.)

 

[BridgeGuy]

Good Luck to you!
As far as the number on the block, The F means it's a F motor and the numbers are the ID of the motor. You can go on SOR.com and look up the block number and see what year and month the motor was made.
Land Cruiser Engine Numbers

Thanks for the info! Just checked and "F 415613" appears to be somewhere in Oct or Nov 1972 which correlates with the build date on the door plate of Nov 1972. Guess it truly is the engine it left Japan with.

Now I HAVE to pull it down to see what's inside. I'm thinking it might be time to get used to a 6 cylinder after all. At least rebuilding the harness is MUCH easier (as well as speeding up all the other aspects of the rebuild.)

 

[BridgeGuy]

On the topic of the engine, I just pulled the valve cover expecting to see rust and general nastiness like everywhere else only to find this:

Now I actually WANT to tear this down as I am more curious about what's going on in there. I believe I downloaded the 71-74 FSM from coolerman's site so thank you for having that!

 

[Racer65]

I wanted to post a pic of the switch bezels as before I go crazy with a set of snap ring pliers, I'm hoping someone can tell me the right way to get these off.

Those are plastic nuts that can be unscrewed in the counter clockwise direction. You can stick the tips of a set of needle nose pliers into the holes and turn it. If you break one you can still buy new.

 

[BridgeGuy]

Those are plastic nuts that can be unscrewed in the counter clockwise direction. You can stick the tips of a set of needle nose pliers into the holes and turn it. If you break one you can still buy new.

View attachment 1254786

Thanks so much!! Now I can actually "officially" get 100% of everything out of the tub as that is all I have been waiting upon as I assumed those were more parts that were discontinued.

I have a small block on my engine stand right now (NOT for this....it's for a '74 K5) so I'm going to hit Harbor Freight in the morning to get another stand for the F engine.

I'm leaning towards getting the heavy-duty stand they have, mostly as it appears to be more stable. Is the heavy-duty one really necessary for an F engine or does anyone have experience/thoughts on using their "normal" engine stand?

 

[Weber Sarge]

Keep one thing in mind - that straight six is around 800lbs and it's length is the problem . Heavy V8's are generally a lot shorter than inline six engines , and that extra length equals leverage - I'd stick to a heavier one . I do know their lifting rack for motorcycles is a joke , buddy put his Harley dresser on it (far within it's weight rating) and the thing almost tipped over off the lift as it slowly started to bend - their newer stuff is just built with much too light of material and the steel itself is crap .

So , if the engine is that clean inside what was the original problem ? Did it run ?

Sarge

 

[BridgeGuy]

Keep one thing in mind - that straight six is around 800lbs and it's length is the problem .

So , if the engine is that clean inside what was the original problem ? Did it run ?

Sarge

Thanks Sarge. I remember reading that these had a couple hundred pounds on a small-block Chevy which would put them somewhere around 700 at the least. So greatly appreciate that I was still low.

Actually it was the I-6 length that was pushing me towards the heavier one just for that reason: the moment generated at the head of the stand would be even more impressive and everything you do at the front end will be magnified even more.

I didn't think of it then but next up is mom's 33 Pontiac with a straight 8. Pretty much settles the need for the more robust stand...especially from Harbor Freight - Home of the Disposable Tool.

So far I can't get it to spin so I don't know what's going on. I'm hopeful that I'll be left alone enough today to get the pan and head off. Family gets funny when I tell them on my birthday I want to be left pretty much alone so that I'm able to work on a project. If I have any luck I'll post pics so y'all can see what I'm missing if I can't figure it out. I don't believe I've ever opened an engine and had it this clean. Makes me wonder if the PO had it rebuilt by someone who didn't know F engines and didn't know who to ask.

 

[65swb45]

Roger,

OE PCV hoses were red; OE heater hoses were black. And the red was a dark, brick red. I can get to some examples on Monday.

Mark

For reference, here's the picture of the OE PCV hoses I mentioned, F and 2F

 

[BridgeGuy]

I've been trying to find the time to get the engine out and opened up but life is rudely interfering. Got the balancer nut and balancer off with almost no effort. After reading through thread after thread about how heinous it would be it was incredibly painless.

I should note that while I thought this had been sitting for about 10 years apparently it was parked in 78 or 79 so the 21k on the odometer is supposedly accurate.

Got the timing cover off and there is a LOT of metal. The plan is to get it on the stand and the pan off tonight so I should have pics tonight but there appears that something did indeed let go. The only question left is how much damage there is.

With that said, does anyone know of a machine shop near Chico that knows F engines? From what I've been reading not just any shop will do without screwing up.

 

[65swb45]

First things first. Before you engage a shop, know that F engines are getting hard to find parts for. Find out what's wrong, and line up sources for what you will need BEFORE engaging a shop. Time was you could leave this up to the machine shop, but that time has passed.

 

[Racer65]

Your closest expert would be Valley Hybrids and Cruiser Brothers in Stockton. Contact @orangefj45 here on MUD.

 

[BridgeGuy]

Appreciate the info. Without this forum is would have naively just treated this like a SBC and not with the care and attention they appear to require.

I hope to have a more definitive idea of what I'm looking at tonight along with pics of what I am sure will be impressive carnage. Impressive to the wallet if not to everyone else.

In the FAQS there is a thread related to issues with the 2F engines. Do most of these also apply to the F engines are they really that different?

 

[BridgeGuy]

Ok, as expected ran into yet another issue tonight that I honestly had not anticipated.

While I have the FSM digitally, of course I did not read through it prior to starting the funfest of removing the engine and was so greasy I wouldn't dare touch anything electronic for fear of cleaning it for the next 2 months. Of course I hadn't really expected to find bolts inside the bellhousing. At this point, I have removed the 2 JIS 12X1.75X30 bolts on the top and with the engine completely seized to the point that I cannot turn it when using a 3/4" drive breaker bar with a Hi-Lift jack handle on the end, there is no way to spin the engine to get all the pressure plate bolts removed.

I found another thread (bellhousing removal) that mentions using a 1/4" drive setup to remove all the pressure plate bolts and snake the clutch and pressure plate out the bottom but have not tried that one yet. I know that with what I have onhand, a 3/8" drive setup just isn't going to work as there isn't enough space.

I guess the big question is: on an F engine, are there 4 or 6 bolts holding the bellhousing to the engine? I've got the bottom 2 (one on either side) almost all the way out (I would prefer not to think about how long it's taken to unscrew them 1/2 a flat at a time) but if there are still another 2 bolts higher in the bellhousing, I do not believe there is a way I can get to them (I am cursed with stoopid big paws which don't lend themselves to wee spaces).

Any insight would be greatly appreciated as right about now I would love about 5 minutes alone in a room with the engineer who dreamed this one up.

I need to stop thinking that evreything is built like the US made stuff that I'm used to working upon as I was expecting to spend about 10-15 minutes pulling the bellhousing and everything down to the crank. At this point I'm about 2.5 hours beyond the original estimate.

 

[skully3]

You need to pull the tranny and drop the clutch assembly to remove the other bolts to the bell housing. Take Marks advice on rebuilding the F engine. Parts are hard to find and prices add up fast. As far as the issues with a 2F or 1F or any engine, attention to detail is needed.

This set up with the bell housing can be seen on older US made vehicles, so its nothing new even on a 40+ yr old Japanese vehicle.

 

[BridgeGuy]

Been a few days but finally got it on a stand and opened up. I don't recall ever seeing this much carbon on pistonsome but that wasn't the bad part. The pictures tell the story.

One of the photos shows the biggest chunk of metal I found but I still don't know what it is from. There is LOTS of ground up metal in the pan and timing cover.

At this point, plans are being changed...again.

 

[Weber Sarge]

Above piece looks like a chunk of a thrust bearing . That crank is going to need some serious work or replacement . Curious to see how the piston pins look - engine almost looks like a victim of an improperly seated distributor - no oil pressure .
Sarge

 

[Tools R Us]

Some would go crazy polishing, replacing every piece, but in reality, they are stupid tough motors. I would clean the carbon off the top of the cylinder bores and push the pistons out. If the pistons are good, would have the crank turned, the rod(s) that had the bearing spun resized. Replace the bearings, hone the cylinders and new rings. Clean it up, check the oil pump for debris/damage and put it back together.

From the pictures, other than the bearing damage, it looks to be good. Fix the problem and it's likely to run for a longtime.

 

[MoCoNative]

I hope you took more photos of that engine before you tore it down. I have a 4/73 but the original smog equipment was done stripped by 77 when my dad acquired it. I've only seen a few other photos of the 1973 F155 engine in its original dress.

Weber may be right, could have been an oiling issue, Tools is correct to, the engine overall does not look too bad. SOR or another cruiser shop may be able to supply a reground crank and bearing kit. If the cylinders and pistons are okay, and not over tolerance, that engine should be salvageable. The F engines were different in a few ways from the 2F engines, primarily with oiling. The small copper line going up to the rocker shaft assembly is very important, do not damage or loose that piece, carries oil from the #3 camshaft bearing to the valve train assembly. Also take note of the crank/camshaft gear oiler on the front of the engine, little protruding slot head bolt, spits oil on the gears.

I don't know if the chunk you found is thrust bearing or not. That engine controls crankshaft thrust with the #3 main journal bearings via a lip on the bearings. Main journals 1,2 and 4 are just normal bearings, but three has a lip. It is unfortunately not adjustable, so if thrust is our of the surface of the crank is ruined on the thrust area, it can't be remedied with oversize bearings. The bore can be accommodated for regrind, the thrust was assumed to not wear I guess.

Another CRITICAL issue, when you pull the main bearing caps for the crank, carefully mark each cap and its location on the block. There are small shims under each main cap. The set the bearing clearance for each main. I see SOR has a new aftermarket kit for them, I think the Toyota shim kits are gone forever. I ran into issues getting the correct main bearings years ago, one style has dowels to keep them from spinning in the block, the other uses little ears on the bearing itself to hold it in a notch. I can't recall which you will need, but they could maybe be modified for one or the other if you can't get the right ones.

If you have been in and out of small blocks, all the basic engine building knowledge works just fine on these engines too. If you follow the engine manual all the way through, it lays it all out and very easy to follow set of instructions that really can't steer you wrong, both for disassembly and re-assembly. Considering how original that all is I would completely restore that engine, smog and all. All the air pump does it put fresh air into the exhaust manifold, and the computer and switching valve dictates when that happens, and also when to vent the charcoal canister and kick the carb linkage around some for over choking and holding the throttle open momentarily when coming off a hill. Beyond that, the smog equipment doesn't rob that much power or effect performance. A cool, more complete burn of the exhaust is a good thing, and carb and distributor are tuned to account for it.

That engine is a tad weaker than a later model 2F, but it has great low end torque, and on flat ground, it will run 70+MPH down the highway if you can stand the roar and roadnoise. Just pulled a tent trailer with mine all the way to Moab and back, even passed a few people on the interstate, they are better engines than you think.

 

[skully3]

I hope you took more photos of that engine before you tore it down. I have a 4/73 but the original smog equipment was done stripped by 77 when my dad acquired it. I've only seen a few other photos of the 1973 F155 engine in its original dress.
.

If you need good stock pics of a 73 motor I have some. as far as damage on this one, I would say an engine is an engine, this one can be fixed but the unless your doing a real full resto, it may not be worth it.

I wud agree with Sarge, Looks like lack of oil. The rest of the motor looks clean maybe it was rebuilt and the person didn't bother to check clearances on the bearings. If you decide to rebuild it I have a few of these motors laying around if you need parts. If you decide not to rebuild Def don't take it to the scrap yard.