starter will not turn without hit from hammer (1 Viewer)

[haryv]

Seen cases like this on other vehicles. I just simply just ordered another starter. But in this case, these starters are harder to find. Never opened up one to find out what the cause it.

Most likely case? I will be outside now, taking the starter off and seeing if the brushes are sticking in there sliding groves, and using emery cloth to clean the contacts on the armature. Let me know if worn brushes are the cause in this case. Starter is only four years old.

 

[brownbear]

starters last longer than 4 years...

contact kits are available. somewhere on here you will find the part numbers. or some smart guy can post them here.

take the main battery wire off and check that it is clean, rough it up with some sandpaper and re-install. could be the connection is bit dirty or corroded. Just make sure you disconnect the battery first as the wire is hot.

 

[Toshi38]

You'll have to take a look at what you have... the starters on these are quite easy to take apart/put back together.

You might as well just go over the whole thing. It takes about an hour to do (I did it a few weeks ago and it made a huge difference to how well my truck started)

So here's what I did:

1. Start by taking the 3 8mm bolts off and looking at the copper contacts... if they are black/pitted clean them off if there is enough meat left to them otherwise go to your local starter shops and try to get new ones. also check the plunger it has a copper contact ring.

If they have a fair bit left on them take a bit of emery cloth and clean them up some and clean out the inside of the solenoid.

2. Double check the wire for the "hold" function on the solenoid. It is the copper wire on the inside that connects to one of the copper lugs on the inside of the starter. (Mine was broken and caused my starter to sometimes work and sometimes not depending on if it was making a bit of contact or not)

3. Re-assemble the solenoid being careful to keep the plastic bits in the right place so that the lugs don't short out on the case.

4. Now is the trickier part. You need to take the starter motor apart. take the bolts that hold the motor out of the bottom on the side with the gears... (if you look at the starter you'll see what I'm talking about I have no pictures at work)

The starter motor will come apart... be careful before you slide the whole thing apart make sure you can get the small philipps screws on the other end out... (They need to come out to re-assemble the motor/get access to the brushes)

5. After you have these two small screws out the end cap of the starter motor cover will be able to come off. You should slide the whole motor out of the base.

6. Next slide the end cap off and take the starter motor apart being careful to not break/disconnect the wires the go to the brushes.

7. using a bit of emery cloth clean the brushes up (if there's anything left of them) (once again if there is very little / nothing left your local starter shop should be able to get you new brushes if you take your old ones in)

8. Next clean up the point of contact on the armature with a light once over with the emery cloth. Also clean between each of the contact pads ... I use a small pick and a bit of blue shop towel to do this.

9. if you wish now is the time to put a bit of grease in the starter bearings. There are two I think... one on each end. Use very little grease as too much will end up in it being in the electrical part of the motor and killing it.

10. Now that your starter is all cleaned up (should have shiny copper parts) its time to put it back together.

11. Take the casing and slide the armature up into it carefully open up the brushes and slide them over (This is why you need that end case off... its possible to do it without getting it off but a huge pain in the ass)

12. Put in the two small bolts into the back... now is a good time to replace them with something with a hex head instead of the philipps head.

13. Put the starter back into the base (be sure to clean the mating surfaces so that it aligns correctly... you don't want a bit of gunk resulting in it being on an angle.

14. Reinstall the long philipps bolts that go up from the base... you should now be done...

I should warn you that I am writing this from memory... at work without looking at a starter... so some of this may be a little off but the idea is right. Perhaps someone who has a better idea can post up if I've made mistakes!

Be careful but its a pretty easy job as long as you don't strip any screws/break anything you shouldn't!

Take your time and use a little electrical contact cleaner for the best results

If I get really bored once I get home I'll pull my spare starter apart and post some pictures (Since this keeps coming up on the forum... )

... Wow that's longer then I thought...

 

[Lost]

nice write up.

i had a similar problem once and i took my starter apart, clean it up, and unseized what was stuck and its worked find since

 

[haryv]

I took it apart. Not being familiar with the gear reduction starters, I removed the front gear reduction frame to look at the gears. They were getting a little dry, so added some HP grease.

I could not pull off the starter body its self after removing the long bolts. So put those back. Removed the cover of the solenoid. Removed the plunger and sanded the contact surface. Removed the incoming B+ terminal contact point with sand paper as well as the outgoing B+ terminal to starter.

I put the cover back on secured the solenoid B+ to starter and went to jump it. I clamped the negative to starter frame and positive to incoming B+ wire. It was creating a spark! I said "that should NOT happen". I jumpered a wire from the solenoid wire to positive. No action. In fact, no spark.

Went to remove the solenoid cover. Removed plunger. Removed both B+In and B+Out terminals. Did a ohm check on the B+Incoming wire and put other prove to body of starter and was getting 1 ohm!! I was thinking "a short to frame?"

Anyone ever pop out the solenoid before? Also, if I ever replace it, I imagine the solder would have to be a very high temp solder as the solenoid wires use alot more current then any bread board these days.

There should be infinite or mega ohms from B+In to starter body correct?


Put it back together and went to jump test it. Getting no action in the solenoid. Jumped the B+ wire going into the starter and negative on frame. Starter pins fast and healthy.

Now, a place called Mobens Starters is frankly either open or closed in Delta/Surrey. I need to have this repaired, or some one that has a used one. Anyone in the Vancouver area that has one used? I may ask in the chitchat section, or where most bj60 owners hang out.
I

 

[Toshi38]

double check that you have the wire for the hold circuit in the right place... and the starter motor wire connected to the correct solenoid terminal.

Also with the end cap off double check that you don't have any shorts between contacts/wire for hold circuit to the outside of the casing....

 

[haryv]

I had solinoid open

Toshi,
Had it open. Removed the in and out B+ terminals. So that left only the C+ terminal ring hanging from the wire. Same with outwire.

I used a ohn meter from B+ incmming to body ground. It was reading 1 ohm on the multimeter.

I would like to some how remove the solenoid and see if the solenoid wire that is normally attached to the B+ wire is still grounding to its steel solenoid body. But how do you remove the solidi?

look at this diagram
___Ignition switch--B+
|------ Sol------|
B_In+ --|----> -|- <-----|---B+_out---------->Starter<----Ground


It almost looks as if the solinoid is getting B+ from both ends?
starter

 

[Toshi38]

I"m not sure I didn't try to get mine out... is it pressed into the bottom or something like that? ... I haven't had a chance to pull my spare apart and check...

The solenoid has two + circuits. One is a hold and one is the trigger... both are required for it to work properly... I can't remember where the ground is...

If you hook up B+ to the wrong terminal for too long you can burn the coil out... (IE if you hook up the motor to the wrong terminal and the b+ to where the motor is supposed to hook up if that makes any sense...)

Do you have a factory service manual to check what the specified resistance should be? Coils in general have a pretty low DC resistance hence they shouldn't be left connected for long periods of time without damage (or some type of current limiting resistor)...

 

[Toshi38]

if you're really stuck you can always go for option 2... I set my starter up with a hole in it on my road trip and we welded up a little tool to engage it manually... but you have to lay under the truck to do it.... not overly recommended but it works in a pinch

 

[haryv]

Toshi, lost, brownbear.

I decided to buy a used starter and will be shipped to me in the next few days.

Now, to prevent having solenoid issues, I would like to take out the coil, and see if its can be unwound. I really do believe in depot repair of parts if possible. Also, been thinking of fabricating a pneumatic leaver, piston to the back of the solenoid to activate it with air pressure as a emergency backup. I think this would be a first for the 3b starting system.

 

[TurboDiesel69]

I decided not to fix mine and it started working.

 

[TOBASH]

Do you have a Toyota part number for the hammer? I ask as that hammer-on-starter trick has not seemed to work for me.

I agree with trying to rebuild the solenoid. No reason not to learn from these parts and make them last longer.

Post pics and show us how you do it Haryv.

Best,

T

 

[haryv]

As stated earlier, I may just make a simple pneumatic plunger piston assembly mounted to the rear plate of the stater. Would make a great backup in the event a future solenoid failure did occur. Eventually will get to the solenoid and do another short ohm check from wire to solenoid frame check to see if that is the problem.

 

[Toshi38]

what I did is the same idea as your pneumatic idea I just drilled a hole and use a home made tool... I can post a picture if you like... costs about 50 cents to make... I think I might modify my new starter to have the same thing... and put a rubber plug in so its sealed up (it was an emergency fix at the time... )

 

[cruisedeisel]

i'd hate to be wrong all the time but 90% of electrical problems are bad grounds. disconnect, sand, scrape, replace grounds. make sure the engine(and starter) are grounded to the frame and body and both batteries the same. good luck!

 

[haryv]

starter was out of the truck and went to jumper it with my 12 volt jump box after I looked inside the solenoid and put back together.

Got the starter. 4wheelauto never did put it in a box. just buble wrapped it and sent with waybill. To me, that is a poor way of shipping anything. Lucky no delivery guy dropped it.