Starter intermittent start (1 Viewer)

[cruzer971]

Ok, longer term update. Problem returned to just the click again. So I dug in and replaced the switch with the old Toyota one. No change, still the click! So I tried the brand new switch, still no changes, just the click. It starts just fine when I run a jumper wire from 12v to the tab on the starter. So I guess I must have bumped something else in there to get it to work so good before. I guess I've got some electrical wires/connections to chase now. On my old Supra I had to run a new wire from the switch to the starter. Maybe this will be the same if I can't find the issue.

 

[EvanD]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the updates, I'm sure it will help a bunch of people. And good luck! I don't have any insight to offer.

 

[Tools R Us]

Have you tried shifting neutral to see if it has any effect? If it has the alarm, have seen the starter cut relay die.

 

[cruzer971]

Ok, I tried starting it in neutral. No change.

 

[Sputnik]

I went through all this just a few months ago. Replaced starter twice, new battery, and replaced ignition switch with no luck. I ended up adding a separate relay for the starter, completely independent of the old circuit. The relay is triggered by the ignition switch. I assume the signal wire for the starter is broken somewhere down the line but I could never find it.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Somewhere in the middle of trying to get the starter replaced again the battery went down and didn't want to charge. I found an Interstate dealer near my son and he had the battery replaced. Oddly enough, he hasn't had an issue since. That was only a few days after I started this thread so it's been doing OK for a few weeks.

 

[LandLocked93]

I'm hunting same said starter menace. I too have a 93. 'Smitty' had 1 non-start that was fixed with a battery dis/re connect and some whackings. 3 uses later (trail truck) he did it again. A few whacks and a few dis/re connects he came back to life, that once. He's been dead since (2 weeks ago). The coming of fall heralds the coming of winter, which heralds my call to the wild, as it were. Thus time is of the essence, my friends.

Symptoms are as follows:
1) Turning the key to crank position (in the act of starting), clicks abound throughout. From the engine bay, from the dash, from the rear of the truck, but I can single out the solenoid click from the rest.
2) Following this, the starter 'clicks' as though the 'shaft' has engaged the flywheel.
3) At nearly the same time, all the lights on the dash go 80% - 90% dim (with 100% dim being off). The buzzer goes nearly inaudible.
4) Releasing the key from the crank position everything goes dead. Repeated turns of the key only return the dash to the very dimmed status.
5) THE ONLY way to snap Smitty of out it is to remove the negative ground from the battery.
6) Removing the positive cable and replacing it, while leaving the ground cable connected does nothing.
7) Once healed of the affliction, repeating step 1 only leads to steps 2-5.

The battlefield:
1) Battery is new, Group 24 770CCA Bosche
2) Battery cables look OEM, but terminals are not the same. Negative is old-school solid lead, screw-n-squish type. Positive is the band-type with screw tightening. There is a winch relay board tightly affixed to the post of this terminal.
3) Starter #1 is PO and is a Toyota/Denso Reman. The seller mentioned the starter when I bought it, and it looks quite new, so I'm guessing it's about 3 years old.
4) Starter #2 I ordered when I was sure THAT was the problem. It is a pik'n'pull from yard in NC. It is an OEM '93 2.2kw starter and it looks it. No one would have pik'd this thing, but nothing rattles and the bearings feel good.

Steps taken to resolve:
1) On first non-start, whack starter - which only worked once, after I'd removed the battery to have it tested (the first time), thus removing the neg terminal. Just didn't put the two together at the time.
2) On 3rd non-start, replaced starter. #1 came out, #2 went in. Result was the same.
3) Had battery (2nd time) and #1 starter tested at parts place. Result - both passed and are good.
4) Read a few hours of threads here to figure out what to try next. No one has mentioned, that I've found, the (near total) power loss (or huge voltage drop?) when trying to start. This seems to point to something greater than just an ignition switch.
5) I've no multimeter at hand, so...

Abnormalities during and after working on the issue:
1) I've noticed between repeated cranking attempts that different courtesy lights would work, or not, randomly. The green light ring around the ignition switch is there sometimes, others not. The door open dash light is on sometimes, others not. This has not happened before the cranking issue.
2) I once worked on this issue getting no where and decided to 'reset' Smitty and lock him up for the night. It was 2 days later when I could get back on it. I first noticed the alarm wasn't unlocking the doors. So I used the key, and upon opening the door I noticed the faint cry of the buzzer and saw the dash lights in the dimmed status, with no key in the ignition. I put the key in and turned to crank, but no good. Had to disconnect the battery to get Smitty right again (still won't crank, but at least not in seizure mode) I've since been leaving the battery disconnected. Not happy about that.
3) I've noticed that the steering column plastic covers are missing all the screws and is held in place by electrical tape carefully wrapped around the entire housing with what appears to be 1 small lag bolt and a washer. I have not attempted to break that seal, but I will for the sake of science, and if I have to.


Nothing else has changed on the vehicle from stock (apart from the offroady-overlandy bits, most of which are not in or on the vehicle during this ordeal).

I feel having two starters, at least one of which is a known good (not the pik'n'pull), and both of which can reproduce the non-start, can rule out internal starter parts as the issue.

Since this came on so quickly (less than 2 months and 5 cranks from first to last) perhaps wiring can be ruled out on the basis that it hasn't been a long-term intermittent and ignored thing?

Does the 93 have the S12 plug and is the 2/4 short test a good indicator of anything? (perhaps if it cranks with the short, this means what?)

Thanks for any input. I want to lean toward the ignition switch, since it sounds simpler to do than say replace cable runs. But it's just the power loss that makes me think it's something else.

 

[ppc]

First off trying to diagnose electrical issues without some type of meter is nearly impossible. Even a cheap meter like you can get from Harbor Freight is helpful.

7 Function Digital Multimeter

Amazing deals on this 7 Function Digital Multimeter at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Second making assumptions about parts being good or bad are going to test your sanity. You could have two bum starters. You need to test both. Rather than hop-scotching around disconnecting things you need to logically test circuits in a path starting at the battery and following the electrical diagrams in the FSM. Swapping random parts is just going to cost a bunch of money and get you nowhere.

Third when you have weird behavior in electrical systems, especially with multiple circuits at the same time then proper grounding is the first thing to check. Make sure battery posts and clamps have zero corrosion and are tight. There are two main grounds, one to the engine block and the other to the body, on the inner fender very close to the negative terminal. Again disconnect, fully clean the lugs and eliminate any rust on the fender.

Forth, replace the fusible links coming off the positive side of the battery. $15 dollars is well spent on something that needs periodic replacement.

The last thing would be to take a heavy gauge wire, like a jumper cable, and connect directly to the positive post of the starter side of the solenoid, other side direct to battery.

 

[LandLocked93]

Just an update,,,it turned out (so far) it was the band-type positive terminal which was quite corroded in areas you couldn't see. Good wire brushing and that red stuff inhibitor you can put on the terminals and Smitty fired right up. 5 times in a row. But I can tell every light is brighter at least.

Good thing too, that terminal was the first thing I've paid attention to in the hopes of fixing this issue (apart from starter #2, which is now tested good). I wasn't looking forward to picking the wiring apart trying to resolve.

As always thanks for the help. This forum and the members thereof is invaluable. Happy trails!

 

[LandLocked93]

2 days later...still cranking strong. Took Smitty on a 5 hour trail shakedown yesterday, turning off and cranking about 10 more times. No issues.
Me suspects I had the least intense occurrence of this issue, and for that I am thankful. Looks like it has been a nightmare for others.

I wish I could provide a sure fix for others who are struggling with this issue. All I can really say is Stay Calm and Start at the Battery terminals, cleaning to an OEM shine. If you've never messed with any other cables, and you've swapped the starter, there is very little left to check beyond the ignition switch (says the guy who did very little to fix his own issue). : )

Cheers and Happy Trails!

 

[Tools R Us]

Just an update,,,it turned out (so far) it was the band-type positive terminal which was quite corroded in areas you couldn't see. Good wire brushing and that red stuff inhibitor you can put on the terminals and Smitty fired right up. 5 times in a row. But I can tell every light is brighter at least.
...

With a meter this is very easy to find. Put the test leads on the battery posts, note the reading, have a helper engage the starter, note the reading. The resting battery reading should be ~12.5V ish, cranking attempt ~11.5-12V ish, If these are way low, the battery is the problem. Now move the leads to the terminals, crank attempt, should be close to the last attempt, if not you have a poor connection. To find which one, put one on the terminal and the other on the post, crank test, reverse the leads, crank attempt. The one that has a significantly lower reading with the lead on the terminal, has a bad connection.

If you suspect a bad ground, put the positive test lead on the battery post and the negative on a good motor ground, crank attempt. For the positive, test from the negitive post to the starter battery terminal. If any of these show significant difference, there is a connection problem. Simple test, takes longer to type than do, called voltage drop test, is wrenching 101.

 

[3sacrwd]

I put in a refurbished Bosch Advanced premium starter 4 months ago, and from about 3 weeks on, it wouldn't do anything, no click, etc. If I tap with a hammer, starts right up? Should I get another Advanced starter, or should I go OEM and hope that helps? Don't think it is the ignition switch, because when I whack it, it starts first try?

 

[ppc]

I would go with an new OEM. In a lot of the remanufactured the contacts are not properly installed. I think @jonheld had a remanufactured OEM that he reinstalled the contacts to get it working properly. You could remove your current starter and check the contacts as a first step. Do you have the original starter you pulled 4 months ago? If you do and it is OEM I would install a new plunger and contacts and use that.

 

[jonheld]

I would go with an new OEM. In a lot of the remanufactured the contacts are not properly installed. I think @jonheld had a remanufactured OEM that he reinstalled the contacts to get it working properly. You could remove your current starter and check the contacts as a first step. Do you have the original starter you pulled 4 months ago? If you do and it is OEM I would install a new plunger and contacts and use that.

Actually, it was 2 remanufactured OEM starters, both in red boxes. Both needed to be rebuilt...again.