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Starter fix maybe??? possible?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by skyshark186, Aug 6, 2005.

  1. skyshark186

    skyshark186

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    So, I got to thinking, and the only time my 91 does the whole, click click click, then randomly start again thing, is when the temp is over 95 and Ive been running arrends. Which to me, doesnt really make me think electrical leading to the starter, because you can clearly hear power hitting the solenoid.

    So, is it possible to put a solenoid off starter somewhere? Sorta like a ford bronco around the 88 year? That way the heat from the tranny and engine arent affecting the electronics housed in metal about two inches away?

    Feasable, retarded? :confused:
     
  2. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Have you put in contacts yet? If no...then I'm going with retarded.
     
  3. skyshark186

    skyshark186

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    There are two oem starters that Ive got that both do it. One was new when I got the truck, and the other I just replaced them in.
     
  4. Scamper

    Scamper

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    Why do you think there would be no heat-related association with the starter contact thing? If you look at the pics of all the nasty contacts, you'll note that they form a deep ridge where the plunger meets the contacts. Now if you believe in thermal expansion, then imagine that when it gets warm, that the clearances between the plunger and contacts gets smaller, thus the potential for sticking gets higher...

    I think you are in denial. For the few bucks it takes, why would you not just replace the contact and plunger??????????
     
  5. skyshark186

    skyshark186

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    Cus I did and its still happening.
     
  6. stevezero

    stevezero SILVER Star

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    I had a similar problem with an 87 4runner. The PO put 3 starters in it in 3 months, and I had to deal with clicking right from the get go when I bought it. I ended up taking some 10 guage aluminum cable, pulled a line from the battery to a push button starter switch, and then onto the factory connector at the solenoid(spliced it in about 3 inches above the connector. I never had the problem again. Plus the insurance company gave me a break on my comprehensive coverage because you couldnt start it.....:) It was hillarious when I traded that truck in. They had me block the entrance with it (was closing time), and they had 4 mechanics all with the hood popped trying to get it started the following morning.

    I think that if everyone complains about the headlight harness, it would make sense that other parts of the wiring harness would not be adequate.....
     
  7. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Well you're probably the only one on the planet with a pefectly good starter that has heat issues. The other thing is all motors will draw higher current when warm.

    On a side note, GM has had terrible hot starting issues that most attributed to the starter. Actually it was old return springs on the mechanical advance of the distributor that would expand when hot and wouldn't return completely which left the distributor so advanced that the engine would stall the starter.
     
  8. skyshark186

    skyshark186

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  9. Scamper

    Scamper

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    How about your battery cables? If they're original, they may have a fair amount of corrosion in/on them that only causes a problem with the heat. Didn't a number of guys have a similar problem a while back? Was it Eric? I thought they replaced their cables and the problem went away, but I could be mistaken... :rolleyes:
     
  10. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    I was just assuming you were trying to find and fix the problem. Since you are now looking into running some wires to the starter you must believe that the starter no longer has a heat problem, which I would also aggree.


    This is a pretty basic circuit, A low current 12v line triggers a solenoid which makes contact between the contacts and a plunger and then high current 12v is supplied to the motor. Since you hear the click the low side is working and since the plunger and contacts are new and properly installed then the only real areas to look at is the high side connections and cable as well as the ground.

    I worked through some electrical issues with another forum member on his 91 and both the positive as well as the negative battery cables needed replacing. The negative cable could be gotten at a local auto store, not a perfect fit but pretty good and cheap. That cable was more than half his problem but it took the positive one as well to totally cure his proplems.

    That neg cable was under 20.00 IIRC, I'd toss one of those in if you're looking for a Hail Mary.
     
  11. skyshark186

    skyshark186

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    I replaced the terminal ends, but not the cables themselves. That was a couple weeks ago and didnt help, or I guess, didnt cure the problem. Ill replace the cables when I get my tune up stuff.
     
  12. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    On Eric's truck the ground issue was at the other end where it attaches to the block. Brace yourself if you plan on changing out that positive one, it's pretty pricey and I was a little nervous recommending it as if it didn't fix his problem it was a whole lot of cash. But it did, thank God.
     
  13. skyshark186

    skyshark186

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    Ill pull the negative cable today and clean the area, and if nothing else maybe that will help till I get a new one.
     
  14. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    be sure to flex the grommet on that end and try to get a look at the strands themselves. If you see alot of green then the cable is junk.
     
  15. stevezero

    stevezero SILVER Star

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    In response to your questions.

    Yes, it was a $5.00 push button starter switch available from any auto parts store. Momentary on. Still used the key for ignition and engine kill. Basically, youre just bypassing the IGN Start lead on the key socket with the hot lead from the battery and switch. I mounted mine at the bottom of the dash next to the fuel tank door release (was a sturdy metal bracket on the old 4runners). With the lil chrome button, it looked fairly stock. Make sure you use good heat shrink or other methods to protect the exposed terminals.

    Now they have those Bling Bling Race Car starter big honkin glowin LED switches. I'm sure that makes it start up sooooo much faster LOLOL.
     
  16. skyshark186

    skyshark186

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    I saw a lot of it when I replaced the terminals, but it seemed at the time that the insulation had green in it, so I didnt worry. Now I know that cable is crap. Thanks :cool:
     
  17. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Excellent, I'd do the ground only first as it's not that pricey and see how things go. But I suspect that if the ground is that bad the POS will probably have to be done also.
     
  18. Kalawang

    Kalawang

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    Skyshark186,


    It seems we are investigating the same problem. My starter is also intermittent and, like you, I'm currently trying to find a solution to a problem that may be heat related. When my LC has been driven a while and then parked, the starter also just clicks. However a few tries and sometimes a bit of thumping gets it working. Fortunately or unfortunately I could not take pictures of my current fix, but I intend to mount that starter this week and see if it works reliably. If my latest fix works, I'll do the same to my second starter and take pictures. That won't be for a month or so as it's the rainy season here now so I don't get as much heat as I used to.


    Kalawang
     
  19. santiagol

    santiagol

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    Have you done the '91 EFI relay rewiring project? If the EFI relay is hot, the starter will go click, click, click until the relay cools down. Everybody is supposed to have done it but it still comes up all the time.
     
  20. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    My understanding is that the EFI relay only interupts the fuel and spark to the engine. With a bad relay the engine turns over but will not start.


    Kalawang, if you are re-engineering the truck you're not fixing anything, just compensating.