Spindle Upgrade With Needle Bearing
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@beno - @orangefj45
Thank you for all the posts on this subject. By extension, your comments on OE, quality, sourcing, etc. open up a larger topic and conversation - around the questions of who do you trust and why?
It appears to this reader that Toyota views guys like me as a source of revenue and will price their parts offerings to maximize profits. And that is appropriate - Toyota is a business, not a charity.
Also, they will outsource parts production to support that profit motive. Onur might correct me, but it seems that Toyota's priorities beyond cost include quality and long-term strategic relationships with suppliers. A goodly amount of this supply decision model has to do with the culture of the organization putting their name on the product - Toyota selling bearings, seals, CV joints, spindles, etc.
Most new/used car buyers at the Toyota showroom probably don't ask the salesman who manufactured the components in the truck. Likewise, we are not likely to ask the Toyota parts rep who made the part we are about to order. In both cases, the truck or part box will say Toyota and that is typically good enough.
In the aftermaket for replacement parts - those spindles, steering components, Birfs, etc. - there are multiple manufacturing sources, packaged and distributed by various organizations. In the aftermaket, you can buy parts made by OE manufacturers, OE-equivalent manufacturers and sub-OK manufacturers in a number of different regions and countries.
Those parts are then assembled into kits (in some cases) and packaged for distribution and sale through wholesale and retail channels. Perhaps they have a brand (Toyota, Terrain Tamer, Trail Gear, etc.) or maybe they are a white box, unbranded product sold on line or through a shop.
When Georg and I decided to offer repair parts and kits in the wholesale market, it was because he and our friends who operate Toyota shops were looking for a OE quality solution from a trusted resource. After a fair bit of due diligence, we went with Terrain Tamer for a large number of reasons related to quality, logistics, economics, product selection and confidence in a trusted brand partner. This isn't a sales pitch, but an explanation of why we chose a given provider to be our partner. Other folks make other decisions, just explaining ours.
I offer this preamble as an introduction to this observation / opinion / question:
It is my opinion that the most important issue isn't the manufacturer of a given part or whether that manufacturer (Joint Fuji, Matsubo, 555, etc.) is an OE supplier to Toyota, but whether you trust the supplier firm putting its name on the box - Toyota, Terrain Tamer, Trail Gear, etc. If you trust the supplier and they back up their products, then does it matter where the part came from?
And if the part/kit is unbranded or a DIY import - do you trust the retailer offering the product? Will they back you up, make it right, etc.? How long have they been doing what they do? What is their reputation? Do they market quality and service or price? Do they deliver on those representations and commitments? Do they keep needed parts on the shelf on this side of the water? Are they good to deal with? Do they support you with information, education, support? Do they support your community? Do they listen and remember? What do the people that you respect run on their rigs?
Just my two cents - love to hear your thoughts.
PS - On the Jeep thing, my first vehicle was a CJ2A and I have owned several Jeeps over the last 50 years. I rented a Grand Wagoneer this week in Boise and except for the transmission control, it was fine....but......all I could think of was how much I would have preferred a 200 Series.
Thank you for all the posts on this subject. By extension, your comments on OE, quality, sourcing, etc. open up a larger topic and conversation - around the questions of who do you trust and why?
It appears to this reader that Toyota views guys like me as a source of revenue and will price their parts offerings to maximize profits. And that is appropriate - Toyota is a business, not a charity.
Also, they will outsource parts production to support that profit motive. Onur might correct me, but it seems that Toyota's priorities beyond cost include quality and long-term strategic relationships with suppliers. A goodly amount of this supply decision model has to do with the culture of the organization putting their name on the product - Toyota selling bearings, seals, CV joints, spindles, etc.
Most new/used car buyers at the Toyota showroom probably don't ask the salesman who manufactured the components in the truck. Likewise, we are not likely to ask the Toyota parts rep who made the part we are about to order. In both cases, the truck or part box will say Toyota and that is typically good enough.
In the aftermaket for replacement parts - those spindles, steering components, Birfs, etc. - there are multiple manufacturing sources, packaged and distributed by various organizations. In the aftermaket, you can buy parts made by OE manufacturers, OE-equivalent manufacturers and sub-OK manufacturers in a number of different regions and countries.
Those parts are then assembled into kits (in some cases) and packaged for distribution and sale through wholesale and retail channels. Perhaps they have a brand (Toyota, Terrain Tamer, Trail Gear, etc.) or maybe they are a white box, unbranded product sold on line or through a shop.
When Georg and I decided to offer repair parts and kits in the wholesale market, it was because he and our friends who operate Toyota shops were looking for a OE quality solution from a trusted resource. After a fair bit of due diligence, we went with Terrain Tamer for a large number of reasons related to quality, logistics, economics, product selection and confidence in a trusted brand partner. This isn't a sales pitch, but an explanation of why we chose a given provider to be our partner. Other folks make other decisions, just explaining ours.
I offer this preamble as an introduction to this observation / opinion / question:
It is my opinion that the most important issue isn't the manufacturer of a given part or whether that manufacturer (Joint Fuji, Matsubo, 555, etc.) is an OE supplier to Toyota, but whether you trust the supplier firm putting its name on the box - Toyota, Terrain Tamer, Trail Gear, etc. If you trust the supplier and they back up their products, then does it matter where the part came from?
And if the part/kit is unbranded or a DIY import - do you trust the retailer offering the product? Will they back you up, make it right, etc.? How long have they been doing what they do? What is their reputation? Do they market quality and service or price? Do they deliver on those representations and commitments? Do they keep needed parts on the shelf on this side of the water? Are they good to deal with? Do they support you with information, education, support? Do they support your community? Do they listen and remember? What do the people that you respect run on their rigs?
Just my two cents - love to hear your thoughts.
PS - On the Jeep thing, my first vehicle was a CJ2A and I have owned several Jeeps over the last 50 years. I rented a Grand Wagoneer this week in Boise and except for the transmission control, it was fine....but......all I could think of was how much I would have preferred a 200 Series.
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You asked for it, we'll stock it. We've now got the OE Toyota spindles as well as the Japanese Joint Fuji.
FA60081OEM (OEM Toyota) & FA60080 (Joint Fuji Japanese)
More info on our knuckle component offerings here:
Product Spotlight: Cruiser Outfitters Knuckle Rebuild Kits
Yeah, We Stock That!
FA60081OEM (OEM Toyota) & FA60080 (Joint Fuji Japanese)
More info on our knuckle component offerings here:
Product Spotlight: Cruiser Outfitters Knuckle Rebuild Kits
Yeah, We Stock That!
But of course. All of them!
For the 80 Series:
Spindle Bushings & Bearings
Fits 1/1990-12/1997 8x Series & LX450 w/Solid Brass Bushing:
Part# HUB33002 (Aftermarket) - $15.50/each
Part# HUB33001 (Toyota) - $97.50/each
(One bushing required per side, two per axle)
Fits 1/1990-12/1997 8x Series & LX450 with Replacement/Upgrade Spindles Featuring Bushing/Bearing Combo:
Part# HUB35001AFT (Aftermarket Bushing) - $6.50/each
Part# HUB35001 (Toyota Bushing) - $10.50/each
Part# HUB33011AFT (Aftermarket Bearing) - $28.50/each Aftermarket (2-3 weeks out)
Part# HUB33011 (Toyota Bearing) - $58.50/each
(One bushing and one bearing required per side, two of each per axle)
Cruiser Outfitters
You have to use either the HUB35001/HUB35001AFT & HUB33011 or just the solid bush HUB33002
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Aren't they mixed up in that pic? I have one in my hand right now I got from Cruiserdan and it looks like the one in front of the joint Fuji box.
That is exactly how they came out of the boxes. The extra step is the OE. That said I too recall seeing OE spindles without the extra step, perhaps the 43401-60080 prior to being superseded?
I have a "theory" question. A needle-bearing spindle would be bathed in moly grease, but isn't moly terrible for rolling bearings due to the skidding effect? The only thing I can think of is that the loading on the needle spindle should be far less than wheel bearings or U-joints.
Yeah, we stock that. A few dozen to be exactJoint Fuji is the OE supplier too!
Part# FA60080 - $165.00/each
Joint Fuji Japanese Replacement w/Upgraded Spindle Bushing/Bearing
Fits 1/1990-12/1997 8x Series/LX450. Spindle bushing/bearing combo is pre-installed so no additional parts are needed. One required per side, two per axle.
Cruiser Outfitters
View attachment 1359768
Interesting note about the bearing/bushing longevity Kevin, that would make a good campfire discussion. And we stock all the replacement spindle bushings and bearings too, OE Toyota and aftermarket
Ordered, so far very pleasant to deal with, Chris has great knowledge of the 80 and great value to boot. Hopefully will received the spindle and other goodies for my front axle soon.
#supportmudvendors
Thank you! Chris is a rockstar and a very valued part of the team. I’ll be sure to give him a pat on the back.
Well, tore into my knuckles for my first rebuild and found some bad news. Whoever did this last did not have a care in the world. Wrong grease, silicone all over the place, etc. Got it all cleaned up and inspected and these needed replacing for sure.
Just talked to Chris at CruiserOutfitters and have two new spindles with bearings headed my way!
Just talked to Chris at CruiserOutfitters and have two new spindles with bearings headed my way!
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Yikes!!
We can definitely help you out @ Cruiser Outfitters. Our FA60080 spindles include the new bearing/bushing combo. Let us know!
We can definitely help you out @ Cruiser Outfitters. Our FA60080 spindles include the new bearing/bushing combo. Let us know!
Mine was a disaster... no thrust washer so no preload on the bearings (both sides), spindles were toast. To add insult to injury the long side inner axle was backwards with the c-clip side stuffed into the diff, with no raised section to ride on the seal all the grease was washed out. Luckily the c-clip was still on the axle when I got it out of the axle housing.
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Don't you just love it when someone who has no business working on a land cruiser, decides they are smart enough and skilled enough to do this type of work. I just shake my head when i see these kinds of mistakes.
I just did this job, i ordered my new spindles from Kurt at cruiser outfitters, you should buy yours from them too, they'll take GREAT CARE of you.
I did the same thing. I mentioned it down below my pictures. Chris helped me out today and even went and opened up my shipment to add a few more parts to my shipment when I had to call back this afternoon. Great service by the Cruiser Outfitters team!
I'm no mechanic, but I do take the time to study the problem (FSM & FAQ's) and ask for help if I'm unsure. And I'm slowww, mostly because I have a little OCD and want to get it right. Almost every undertaking on my Cruisers has been a first for me (my 80's birf being one) and the one lesson I have learned is that if you want it right, you might have to learn how to do it yourself.
Your post helped me understand why I don't have needle bearings as I build the part list for my knuckle rebuild--referencing Wits-End Poster. Thanks for the help--'94 LC
BillyGoatMTB
SILVER Star
Great thread 
I regeared to 4:88, added ARB lockers, and completely rebuilt my axles right before I went to the Rubicon in July.
I had no idea there was so much controversy around needle bearings and spindles. I suppose the word would be a grenade explosion if the needle bearings fail and having a spare spindle might not be enough.
My new spindles have the needle bearing I packed them with nlgi-2 bearing Grease and made sure that my births were also very well packed with nlgi-2 Molly.
I know that because both greases are nlgi-2 they should mix but I have to admit after reading this thread and although there's been no issues so far I am a little concerned about the needle bearings and how often I should pull them apart and repack them.......... Or press in solid bushings....
I carry a spare old spindle with a solid bushing when I wheel along with a birf, 2 drive shafts and a whole bunch of other stuff but for Long highway family road trips should I make a plan to replace the needle bearings with solid bushings?
I'll be honest while assembling I was kind of scratching my head thinking Mr t always makes things better but the veins inevitably are going to pull in Molly to mix with the high temp wheel bearing Grease.
The Rubicon completely thought, additional forest adventures and about 5k road miles no issues or looseness.
I regeared to 4:88, added ARB lockers, and completely rebuilt my axles right before I went to the Rubicon in July.
I had no idea there was so much controversy around needle bearings and spindles. I suppose the word would be a grenade explosion if the needle bearings fail and having a spare spindle might not be enough.
My new spindles have the needle bearing I packed them with nlgi-2 bearing Grease and made sure that my births were also very well packed with nlgi-2 Molly.
I know that because both greases are nlgi-2 they should mix but I have to admit after reading this thread and although there's been no issues so far I am a little concerned about the needle bearings and how often I should pull them apart and repack them.......... Or press in solid bushings....
I carry a spare old spindle with a solid bushing when I wheel along with a birf, 2 drive shafts and a whole bunch of other stuff but for Long highway family road trips should I make a plan to replace the needle bearings with solid bushings?
I'll be honest while assembling I was kind of scratching my head thinking Mr t always makes things better but the veins inevitably are going to pull in Molly to mix with the high temp wheel bearing Grease.
The Rubicon completely thought, additional forest adventures and about 5k road miles no issues or looseness.
Don’t worry about it. If you do anything for peace of mind, clean the bearing grease from the needle bearings and smear moly grease in them so the grease is the same. I use Valvoline Polladium on/in everything that requires grease including wheel bearings and have for many years. My last knuckle service was in 2017 when I installed new spindles with needle bearings. Long road trips and lots of wheeling later with zero issues. Don’t over think it.Great thread
I regeared to 4:88, added ARB lockers, and completely rebuilt my axles right before I went to the Rubicon in July.
I had no idea there was so much controversy around needle bearings and spindles. I suppose the word would be a grenade explosion if the needle bearings fail and having a spare spindle might not be enough.
My new spindles have the needle bearing I packed them with nlgi-2 bearing Grease and made sure that my births were also very well packed with nlgi-2 Molly.
I know that because both greases are nlgi-2 they should mix but I have to admit after reading this thread and although there's been no issues so far I am a little concerned about the needle bearings and how often I should pull them apart and repack them.......... Or press in solid bushings....
I carry a spare old spindle with a solid bushing when I wheel along with a birf, 2 drive shafts and a whole bunch of other stuff but for Long highway family road trips should I make a plan to replace the needle bearings with solid bushings?
I'll be honest while assembling I was kind of scratching my head thinking Mr t always makes things better but the veins inevitably are going to pull in Molly to mix with the high temp wheel bearing Grease.
The Rubicon completely thought, additional forest adventures and about 5k road miles no issues or looseness.
View attachment 2886011
View attachment 2886012