Spare fuel bladders in the doors?

Hornd

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This thread is where a flame suit would come in really handy
I always wear a Rubber (it’s the Truck) Helmet and Nomex suit with Satelite transponder on my Neck.
 

Hornd

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If your serious about extra fuel get tire carrier (hitch $125 or Bumper $1000+) and tuck 2 scepters in spare tire spot way up where they don’t get touched. I have this in process. Extra 12 gallons and you can do a water scepter or diesel or etc. Takes 3 minutes to siphon into tank with ball siphon.
 

Dave 2000

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Speaking of bags, the air bags in the dash have very large fuel holding capacity and are made of strong materials. They are also close to the engine so it should be pretty easy to plumb them in as aux tanks along with the door bladders. For those that want to save some time and $ the in-dash bags may be a lower cost option as well, at least for the later 80s that already have them installed.
I am sorry this just simply will not work for example there would be fuel starvation from the drivers air bag, the 'squib' hardly able to supply the amount of fuel the vehicle needs, then there is the tangling issue, the installation of two squibs (one needed for return fuel) would undoubtedly cause them to get twisted and perhaps knotted jamming the steering?

No offense meant....just having a little fun. 👌

Regards

Dave
 

John Young

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Seems to me that you could make this work with some sort of active fuel management system. Lines and returns to each of the bags, all valves and with pressure sensors at the bottom of each bag to determine fuel level in the bag. The system would then move fuel from the main steel tank to the subsidiary bags to keep them preferably full. That way filling would be pretty fast unless everything was empty. There is even existing patents on this.

And of course you would want to use self-sealing fuel bladders made by very careful technicians from the 1940's:
1666084020603.png
 
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@Dave 2000 those are some valid points but probably easily solved by adding a fuel return clock spring or similar and I'd guess that we may want to remove the squibs anyway as they probably aren't fuel resistant. You didn't mention the many benefits of the idea which I think we should focus on. For instance, there are no rotational complexities with the passenger side air bag and apparently air bags fill with gas amazingly quickly so our time at the pump could be greatly reduced, etc. etc. Here are some quotes that show a few reasons why this is such an exciting idea:
  • "European airbags hold 35 litres of gas ... fully inflate within 25 milliseconds"
  • "American air bags, usually holding 60 litres of gas, have to inflate even faster."
60 liters in less than 25 milliseconds! I wouldn't even notice that at a fuel stop :)
 

mudgudgeon

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@Dave 2000 those are some valid points but probably easily solved by adding a fuel return clock spring or similar and I'd guess that we may want to remove the squibs anyway as they probably aren't fuel resistant. You didn't mention the many benefits of the idea which I think we should focus on. For instance, there are no rotational complexities with the passenger side air bag and apparently air bags fill with gas amazingly quickly so our time at the pump could be greatly reduced, etc. etc. Here are some quotes that show a few reasons why this is such an exciting idea:
  • "European airbags hold 35 litres of gas ... fully inflate within 25 milliseconds"
  • "American air bags, usually holding 60 litres of gas, have to inflate even faster."
60 liters in less than 25 milliseconds! I wouldn't even notice that at a fuel stop :)
Shìt! Are you saying we've all ignored that our airbags produce fuel?
A European airbag products 35litres in 25 milliseconds?
Trigger the airbag every 100 or so miles to keep the tank topped off! Brilliant.
 

nukegoat

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I don't appreciate that this thread has turned into a joke for some people. I'm actively working with a manufacturer to build the first prototype fuel bladders that will be available for sale once I validate that they work. I am aiming for very few moving parts, with the latest system simply using a system of check valves to drain excess fuel into the main tank automatically. The downside is that you have to fill up the bladders separately either via a hole in each door jamb or with a separate network of fuel filler lines.

I was wrong in my initial estimates, the front doors will hold approx 6.3 gallons(!) and the rears only 2.7, which works out to 18 gallons of extra fuel, but still totally worth it.

I also contacted an electrical engineer who cautioned about static discharge from the plastic bags and recommended I use a simple grounding strap that inconspicuously dangles from the rocker panel to neutralize any eddy currents.

Please PM @NLXTACY who has agreed to be my supplier and is taking pre orders for the bladders.
 

John Young

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@John Young You think we could shift the fuel around fast enough to serve as effective ballast in hard cornering or extreme rock crawling maneuvers?
Honestly, no. You would have to have very large hoses going through the doors and high pressure pumps. Now if you want to modify stance for maneuvers, then perhaps the active X-torsion bar suspension from late Packards might be the way to go.

Jump to 7:50

I really want the hat from the driver early in the video.
 
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You're not taking this seriously until you have a helper spitting raw gasoline into your intake. A few extra fuel bottles, a willing participant,...
Screenshot_20221018-151829.jpg
 

mudgudgeon

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I also contacted an electrical engineer who cautioned about static discharge from the plastic bags and recommended I use a simple grounding strap that inconspicuously dangles from the rocker panel to neutralize any eddy currents.

Please PM @NLXTACY who has agreed to be my supplier and is taking pre orders for the bladders.
I never knew I needed these until you said wits end is gonna make these.
So you're saying expect anodised and engraved carbon fibre bags with gold passivated zinc plated fixings.
$1000-1500 per door.
Should hit the market in 2025?
Will these work in pre '94 models? Or'94 onwards only?
 

nukegoat

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I never knew I needed these until you said wits end is gonna make these.
So you're saying expect anodised and engraved carbon fibre bags with gold passivated zinc plated fixings.
$1000-1500 per door.
Should hit the market in 2025?
Will these work in pre '94 models? Or'94 onwards only?
Wits end is not making them, just distributing. If you PM Joey you can get on the preorder list.
 
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There isn't a whole lotta room in those doors.... Unless you permanently seal the windows closed and pull the regulators... Then you have to figure out a way to fill them and then deal with heavy doors. Then figure out how to deliver the fuel to the tank. Seems like an aux tank would be a safer and more convenient way to do it... I would think it would hold more fuel too.
 
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Have you applied for USDOT and SAE certification yet? You may want to consider steel braided and fireproof fill lines, Flammable Goods stickers outside each door, WHIMIS pamphlets for the passengers, auxiliary ventilation and Lower Explosion Limit detectors in each door before you apply for certification.

Hope this helps.
 

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