sorting dobinson MRR 2" and 97 LX450

Bludozer

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77mustard40

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This thread pushed me to pour two fingers of The Balvenie single malt, neat.

I’ve got Rick’s 2.5 plates as well, I installed them after replacing my worn out original suspension with an Iron Man 2” lift. My ride heights were pretty close to yours and I had plenty of caster and the truck handled great. But time passed and I picked up some lightly used Dobinsons VT146’s and 147’s which sat in the garage for a year. After adding a Shortbus and winch to the front and Labs rear bumper I swapped out the springs and added the Dobs IMS shocks. I’m sitting at 23.75” up front and a hair over 24 out back, the truck still handles fine and tracks straight although the steering touch is lighter. I’m probably a little short of caster now but I have no vibes so I’m not going to mess with it. Point being I think your caster has to be good unless you didn’t mark your spots right and made a mistake grinding out the slots. If your worried about it, get the truck aligned now that you have the suspension in place so you are playing with actual #’s.
 

landtank

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hi rick. thanks for this. i will try to get under there and get pics. one side is definitely looser than the other i have to admit. more than i www happy about.
but just for my peace of mind, what is the issue here? the bolts hold the plates together?
but if you don't have the flange actually bearing top, front and back on the bolts there is slop in there that you will feel? and if you stitch the plates you take out this slop?
also i'd like to just do some math. what is the correlation between degree of caster correction and inches of lift again. i have it here somewhere.
you are saying the 2.5" lift plates provide 4 degrees of caster correction? so it was 1" lift was 1.5 degrees of caster correction?
so i was at -1.2/-1.6 and i'm now at +2.8/+2.4?
thanks again.
The center sleeve of the bushings needs to clamp against the bracket. In a previous thread you were asking about alternate ways to cut the bracket. I stressed this to you several times and showed you pictures.

If the notches are too big the bushings won’t get clamped in place so the arms will move side to side and add to that the fact that you haven’t finished the install by securing the plates to the brackets by welding them in place is concerning.

I think you need to move on from trying to understand the geometry behind the modification and focus on providing accurate answers to questions asked.
 
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The center sleeve of the bushings needs to clamp against the bracket. In a previous thread you were asking about alternate ways to cut the bracket. I stressed this to you several times and showed you pictures.

If the notches are too big the bushings won’t get clamped in place so the arms will move side to side and add to that the fact that you haven’t finished the install by securing the plates to the brackets by welding them in place is concerning.

I think you need to move on from trying to understand the geometry behind the modification and focus on providing accurate answers to questions asked.
thanks rick.

not sure if i have answered all the questions here but if i have not please let me know and i will answer it. also i am interested in you or someone else breaking your explanation down for me so i am sure i understand it though.

"The center sleeve of the bushings needs to clamp against the bracket...If the notches are too big the bushings won’t get clamped in place so the arms will move side to side."

i think what you are saying is that the metal core in the bushing needs to still bear against the brackets after you cut the notch or the inner core of the bushing will slip around "laterally" or "left to right"?

i mean i think this is what you are saying since everything else seems to me to be captured.

you are saying the bushing can be captured (as it seems to be here) by the bolted plates but that inside of this the inner metal core could slip around if there isn't enough bracket left to bear on?

maybe someone else can explain it?(!)

i mean you are not saying that a slightly oversized bitch is going to introduce slip front to back or side to side are you?(!)

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This thread pushed me to pour two fingers of The Balvenie single malt, neat.

I’ve got Rick’s 2.5 plates as well, I installed them after replacing my worn out original suspension with an Iron Man 2” lift. My ride heights were pretty close to yours and I had plenty of caster and the truck handled great. But time passed and I picked up some lightly used Dobinsons VT146’s and 147’s which sat in the garage for a year. After adding a Shortbus and winch to the front and Labs rear bumper I swapped out the springs and added the Dobs IMS shocks. I’m sitting at 23.75” up front and a hair over 24 out back, the truck still handles fine and tracks straight although the steering touch is lighter. I’m probably a little short of caster now but I have no vibes so I’m not going to mess with it. Point being I think your caster has to be good unless you didn’t mark your spots right and made a mistake grinding out the slots. If your worried about it, get the truck aligned now that you have the suspension in place so you are playing with actual #’s.
thanks man.
i almost dipped into the lagavulin or laphroig over here but maybe another night.
i appreciate your help.
i sort of assumed the caster was correct. but someone asked me for alignment numbers when sorting this. and i mentioned (they are above) they were before correction.
then i forgot the 2.5 version plates correct for 4 degrees. i said they corrected 2 degrees and they said my caster was the problem.
i think - as i think you indicated - caster is not the issue. it doesn't feel like caster to me. i am thinking caster has more to do with tracking. or maybe i am guessing here wildly.
but i can obviously get an alignment to verify the post bushing and caster plate numbers when i get the time.
seems like i have two concerns.
1. what is causing the front end to feel like it floats? it doesn't seem to be steering related in the sense there isn't a lot of slop in the wheel.
2. i don't really understand what rick is talking about with oversized holes and the stitching.
A. as i understand it it seems to me these plates could cause an issue if you completely butcher the notch and you can now have the center metal core of OEM bushings physically slide side to side (or left to right) past the original U shaped flanges and basically smack into the caster plates that sandwich around the flanges. i don't see how being oversized as it relates to say the bolt could cause any issue since the bolt seems - well is the front bolt captured or can it float relative to the cut you made in the original flange?(!)
B. what is stitching the plates doing exactly? is it preventing the plates from separating if the bolts loosen? or does it prevent any slop in the axle relative to the cut you made in the flange? i still don't get this actually.
 

77mustard40

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Q1 - ride definitely changed with Dobs 146’s and IMS shock, there‘s more travel and less resistance in the first couple of inches in wheel travel. On big dips I can feel that sensation change as wheel travel gets to the higher resistance of the variable spring.
Q2A - a grove that is ground too deep into the axle housing would result in less axle rotation, so less caster correction, that’s why it’s important to mark the bolt hole locations on the housing before breaking out the grinder
Q2B - stitch welding the plate to the housing permanently attaches the plate to the housing, do it for safety sake. I ran a weld about an inch and a half down the plate and housing on the front side of the axle, cleaned it up and hit it with primer and paint.
 
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2B. i meant to stitch them. was going to do it myself and weld the panhard adjuster at the same time. i fixed up an old box welder but i haven't had time to practice. just to be clear on the conventional setup (no notches) the bolts would both have to loosen and fall out in front and the axle would drop i guess.with these you'd need the front bolt to loosen basically and when the plates could work free in front and the bolt and ehe front of the axle would drop basically i guess.

Q2A. i don't quite understand your "too deep into the axle housing" explanation. or the issue with rotation?
i think what i was asking is if the red distance mark in the flange (basically) just can't be so large as to allow the radius (in green) of the bushing through. meaning i was as little sloppy in the width here on my first one. but didn't seem like this would be an issue.
but you seem to be discussing a different issue here.

Q1. i'd like to drill down on 1 with you here at some point. you mention 146's which look like a progressive rate? i post mine here which i meant to post originally. i think mine must be more compact than yours?
but you seem to say you are feeling a kind of "top end float" in your springs is that right?
THANK YOU

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landtank

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thanks rick.

not sure if i have answered all the questions here but if i have not please let me know and i will answer it. also i am interested in you or someone else breaking your explanation down for me so i am sure i understand it though.

"The center sleeve of the bushings needs to clamp against the bracket...If the notches are too big the bushings won’t get clamped in place so the arms will move side to side."

i think what you are saying is that the metal core in the bushing needs to still bear against the brackets after you cut the notch or the inner core of the bushing will slip around "laterally" or "left to right"?

i mean i think this is what you are saying since everything else seems to me to be captured.

you are saying the bushing can be captured (as it seems to be here) by the bolted plates but that inside of this the inner metal core could slip around if there isn't enough bracket left to bear on?

maybe someone else can explain it?(!)

i mean you are not saying that a slightly oversized bitch is going to introduce slip front to back or side to side are you?(!)
Thanks for the pics, I don't need anyone getting hurt. You did a good job with the install, now please stitch the plates.

One of the more common issues that results in what you are describing is with the panhards. Have somebody sit in the truck with the wheels point straight forward. Have them place their hand at 12:00 on the steering wheel and then turn the wheel back and fourth between 10:00 and 2:00 while you feel for play at the front panhard bushings.
 
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Thanks for the pics, I don't need anyone getting hurt. You did a good job with the install, now please stitch the plates.

One of the more common issues that results in what you are describing is with the panhards. Have somebody sit in the truck with the wheels point straight forward. Have them place their hand at 12:00 on the steering wheel and then turn the wheel back and fourth between 10:00 and 2:00 while you feel for play at the front panhard bushings.
hi rick
thanks for the help here.
i was going to stitch the plates when i got the panhard bracket put on. unfortunately life got in the way.
just to be clear the pics i posted with the bolts and the grinder are from your 2.5 plate install document. they are not from my rig.
i did have photos here somewhere of this install and i can get under there and unbolt it all and post some.
but what would also help is your being willing to explain what you are looking for so others - like myself - can do their own inspection. and right now i am not seeing that.
one thing i was asking is what exactly you are looking to verify and why. i posted a question for instance about whether and why you would be verifying the LENGTH of the area cut out in red - shown in the dimensions symbol in red below - as it relates to the actual diameter of the bolt that is going through it.
it's not clear to me why you would be concerned about this "extra space" (if in fact you are) - unless you are simply concerned that the metal core of the bushing (shown in GREEN below) - is not "slipping through" the new hole.
because it doesn't seem like having a little extra width (or even height) in this slot should be an issue and i don't see you clarifying this anywhere.
is that not a clear or fair question? or are you ignoring it for some reason?

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landtank

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hi rick
thanks for the help here.
i was going to stitch the plates when i got the panhard bracket put on. unfortunately life got in the way.
just to be clear the pics i posted with the bolts and the grinder are from your 2.5 plate install document. they are not from my rig.
Why would you post pictures pulled from my guide when I asked specifically for pictures of what you did. Back off the nuts, remove a plate an take a picture. It's probably 10 minutes of your life to make sure you don't kill somebody. STOP POSTING IRRELEVANT PICTURES!! It's not helping.
 
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Why would you post pictures pulled from my guide when I asked specifically for pictures of what you did. Back off the nuts, remove a plate an take a picture. It's probably 10 minutes of your life to make sure you don't kill somebody. STOP POSTING IRRELEVANT PICTURES!! It's not helping.
You can't have one of his posts without several irrelevant pictures. And sometimes screen shots of the pictures in that very thread. Just the way it is.
 

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