SOA Fj40 Questions - 55 Springs - "Measure twice cut once" (1 Viewer)

[csd1982]

Before people tell me to search I did. I read a bunch of posts. I just want to make sure I have a few things understood before I decide what springs to use and spend money.

Fj40, 1975, stock axles, 2F, SM465, Orion, 4" SU by PO so I don't have any stock springs laying around.

I have have Ford Shock Towers, not installed
I have 4x4labs Hi-Steer, not installed
I have FJ60 PS components, not installed


If I were to use FJ55 springs all around is the following correct based on what I think I understand from reading.

The rear hangers on the Fj40 will have to be moved towards the front to accommodate the Fj55 rears are longer, correct?

Using FJ55 springs will move my rear wheels back 3 inches, correct?

I have to get some bushings from Profit Cruisers to allow the FJ55 rear springs to work with my greaseible Fj40 shackles (rear only).

The FJ55 front springs are the exact same as the FJ40 front spring so nothing has to be changed. The wheel location is in the same spot. There is nothing special I would have to consider when installing FJ60 PS, High-steer and Shock Towers, correct?

My other option is just spend the money and call Alcan to get some custom stock FJ40 springs to use for this SOA...

 

[too tall]

FJ55 springs are getting quite rare around here . Not sure where you are from but I would go with something a little easier to find . I personally like 60 series rear springs in the rear of an FJ40 when doing a Spring over . Ruff stuff carries spring and shackle hangers that make the job fairly easy .

 

[71FJnick]

Here's some consolidated data I gathered when I was doing a similar search
All came from here, pirate, SOR.com, let me know if you see errors.

I think the 55 fronts have centered pins so will move your axle 1" forward, rears will push the axle ~3" back. you'll need to move the rear spring hanger on the rear springs, some guys get lucky and just rotate it 180deg, but I think you'd want to mock it up properly to get the right shackle angles.

 

[csd1982]

Here's some consolidated data I gathered when I was doing a similar search
All came from here, pirate, SOR.com, let me know if you see errors.
View attachment 1299204
I think the 55 fronts have centered pins so will move your axle 1" forward, rears will push the axle ~3" back. you'll need to move the rear spring hanger on the rear springs, some guys get lucky and just rotate it 180deg, but I think you'd want to mock it up properly to get the right shackle angles.

What springs did you end up going with for the SOA?

 

[Fast Eddy]

55 springs use different bushings than fj40 and different from fj60. My only real comment here is to try to match the springs so you don't have to go around collecting a bunch of weird sizes of bushings. SOR has them all though. My rig has fj55 rears in the front and fj62 rears in the back. It's silly-flexible at the expense of about four different bushing sizes.

If you move the axle back, I've got a set of these fender plates that will recenter the fender opening.

Here you can see the axle has been moved back:

Here you can see it recentered with the fender plates:

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Let me also recommend you NOT use FJ55 springs. They didn't sell may FJ55s, FJ55s are mostly rusted away junk, and when you need replacements they will be unobtainable. Plus they have little dinky bushing like stock FJ40. There are better choices.

If you want to use Land Cruiser springs, at least use FJ60/62 springs. Many more of those around. The rear springs in particular are perfect for FJ40. They will move your rear axle back 3-4 inches, and I can HIGHLY recommend @Fast Eddy 's wheel arches to restore a stock appearance.

Even better would be to use a more common spring from a junk yard. I have seen nice spring overs with Tahoe rear springs at all 4 corners. I have also heard of certain Ford springs working well too, but I've not personally done that.

I'm using FJ62 springs on my FJ40 spring over. They flex well, I have a bunch of spares and they are good. But, based on my experience with Chevy springs on my FJ60, I'd use Chevy springs on my FJ40 to start with. They are a better choice and a cheaper choice, with spares available from now until forever. And they come with bushings!

 

[csd1982]

Let me also recommend you NOT use FJ55 springs. They didn't sell may FJ55s, FJ55s are mostly rusted away junk, and when you need replacements they will be unobtainable. Plus they have little dinky bushing like stock FJ40. There are better choices.

If you want to use Land Cruiser springs, at least use FJ60/62 springs. Many more of those around. The rear springs in particular are perfect for FJ40. They will move your rear axle back 3-4 inches, and I can HIGHLY recommend @Fast Eddy 's wheel arches to restore a stock appearance.

Even better would be to use a more common spring from a junk yard. I have seen nice spring overs with Tahoe rear springs at all 4 corners. I have also heard of certain Ford springs working well too, but I've not personally done that.

I'm using FJ62 springs on my FJ40 spring over. They flex well, I have a bunch of spares and they are good. But, based on my experience with Chevy springs on my FJ60, I'd use Chevy springs on my FJ40 to start with. They are a better choice and a cheaper choice, with spares available from now until forever. And they come with bushings!

What would be the problem with starting off with fj55 springs now and if they went bad replace them with fj60 springs later?

The springs look very similar in dimension.

Would I have to worry about pinion angles and a redo cut and turn between the different setups as the shape of the springs are so close?

I can get 4 springs all off the same fj55 for $100 bucks. I'll depack and clean them up.

 

[csd1982]

Wh

55 springs use different bushings than fj40 and different from fj60. My only real comment here is to try to match the springs so you don't have to go around collecting a bunch of weird sizes of bushings. SOR has them all though. My rig has fj55 rears in the front and fj62 rears in the back. It's silly-flexible at the expense of about four different bushing sizes.

If you move the axle back, I've got a set of these fender plates that will recenter the fender opening.

Here you can see the axle has been moved back:

Here you can see it recentered with the fender plates:

looks great, what size are the tires there?

Are you on stock axles?

 

[Fast Eddy]

What would be the problem with starting off with fj55 springs now and if they went bad replace them with fj60 springs later?

Different hangers and bushings. Replacing with fj60 springs would involve welding or adapation bushings, which are also hard to find.

Get the fj55 rears and sell them to help pay for the (cheaper) fj60 springs. Since you're welding, use rears in the front and the rear for better flex.

 

[MOTOV8R]

For Sale: - Stock FJ60 Leaf Springs in Seattle/Tacoma area

 

[csd1982]

Different hangers and bushings. Replacing with fj60 springs would involve welding or adapation bushings, which are also hard to find.

Get the fj55 rears and sell them to help pay for the (cheaper) fj60 springs. Since you're welding, use rears in the front and the rear for better flex.

OK so you are suggesting I use 2 sets of rear fj60 springs all around, right?

That means I have to move the hangers on the frame towards the center of the rig to accommodate for the much longer springs, right?

Will the stock hangers and my current HFS shackles fit fj60 springs?

I only read to use Fj55 springs in the first place because they flex well. Is there any advantage to use the Fj60 springs over stock Fj40 springs

 

[Fast Eddy]

looks great, what size are the tires there?

Are you on stock axles?

FJ62 front axle (3" wider, outboarded springs) and narrowed FZJ80 rear, 4" narrowed on the short side, e-lockers and Toyota disc brakes in both. My wheelbase is increase about 6" over stock. It rides amazingly well at freeway speeds.

OK so you are suggesting I use 2 sets of rear fj60 springs all around, right?

Right.

That means I have to move the hangers on the frame towards the center of the rig to accommodate for the much longer springs, right?

Right.

Will the stock hangers and my current HFS shackles fit fj60 springs?

Nope. The springs are wider.

I only read to use Fj55 springs in the first place because they flex well. Is there any advantage to use the Fj60 springs over stock Fj40 springs

The stock fj60 springs will flex like fj55 springs, but are more commonly available both now and in the future. By going full-custom now you are future-proofing the setup that you're spending your time on.

If you really, really only want to move one of the four hangers on each side, just do the rear fj55 springs that you can get, move the rear hangers back and call it good. This will result in at least two different bushing sizes, but that's the worst of it.

(I'm biting my tongue about fj60-width axles to not confuse the original issue. The extra width is nice too.)

 

[MOTOV8R]

That means I have to move the hangers on the frame towards the center of the rig to accommodate for the much longer springs, right?

As 71fjNick mentioned above, you move the outside hangers (shackle end) outward. This is what gets you the added wheelbase. The pinned ended stays put. I rotated my rear hanger 180 degrees when I put 55 springs on the rear of my 40.

 

[csd1982]

(I'm biting my tongue about fj60-width axles to not confuse the original issue. The extra width is nice too.)

I know.... I have been debating this as well. I already have a 4x4 labs highsteer Kit for the stock axle setup. Do you know if that would work with fj60 minus the tie rods are too short?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I know.... I have been debating this as well. I already have a 4x4 labs highsteer Kit for the stock axle setup. Do you know if that would work with fj60 minus the tie rods are too short?

Should work fine. There may already be enough thread length, but if in doubt, just 2 longer threaded rods and you're good to go. I know I had Luke re-cut one for me.

For an FJ40 SOA, I would see FJ60 axles as almost mandatory. The extra width makes more difference in stability than you would think.

 

[csd1982]

Y

Should work fine. There may already be enough thread length, but if in doubt, just 2 longer threaded rods and you're good to go. I know I had Luke re-cut one for me.

For an FJ40 SOA, I would see FJ60 axles as almost mandatory. The extra width makes more difference in stability than you would think.

Yea that's what I keep thinking as well. Luke confirms the hardware works (I emailed him) I'll go the fj60 axle and spring route. Just have to find the axles and springs.

 

[csd1982]

I assume fj62 axles will work if I cannot get fj60 axles?

 

[csd1982]

To be more specific are the knuckles the same? I have Luke's hi-steer Kit already and it will work with fj60 axles. This Fj62 axle is from 1989

 

[lcwizard]

Here's some consolidated data I gathered when I was doing a similar search
All came from here, pirate, SOR.com, let me know if you see errors.
View attachment 1299204
I think the 55 fronts have centered pins so will move your axle 1" forward, rears will push the axle ~3" back. you'll need to move the rear spring hanger on the rear springs, some guys get lucky and just rotate it 180deg, but I think you'd want to mock it up properly to get the right shackle angles.

Measurements are close enough but the rates are way off for the 40's. For example, at 170 in/lb at the rear you have to count on 4~5" compression at ride height. OME's rates are over 300 and Rancho is close to 400. I'm not sure a stock spring had more than that in free arch so after weight was applied, at 155, it would sit on the bump stops at rest in the driveway. The 60 rate is closer but still light. Medium OME's are in the 265 range plus a 500+ in/lb overload leaf. Considering the stock has no separate load leaf I'd assume a slightly higher rate or Toyota could not have expected the wagon to carry cargo. It's hard to test a factory 40 spring since I haven't had access to a brand new one since the early 80's. All we can go by is industry spring rate formulas based , leaf count, length, width and thicknesses. Arch is added based on the rate to set ride height based on vehicle weights and projected loads.

 

[csd1982]

FJ62 front axle (3" wider, outboarded springs) and narrowed FZJ80 rear, 4" narrowed on the short side, e-lockers and Toyota disc brakes in both. My wheelbase is increase about 6" over stock. It rides amazingly well at freeway speeds.



Right.



Right.




Nope. The springs are wider.



The stock fj60 springs will flex like fj55 springs, but are more commonly available both now and in the future. By going full-custom now you are future-proofing the setup that you're spending your time on.

If you really, really only want to move one of the four hangers on each side, just do the rear fj55 springs that you can get, move the rear hangers back and call it good. This will result in at least two different bushing sizes, but that's the worst of it.

(I'm biting my tongue about fj60-width axles to not confuse the original issue. The extra width is nice too.)

So your now I can get a set of fj62 axle as well. After reading more I also want to widen the axle and not outboard the springs plus get the wheel base. Adding stability and allow more rim options as i would need less backspace.

You extended the front axle by 3 inches but still out boarded the springs. If you made the front axle wider why did you still outboard?

How much did the custom axle cost to accommodate the wider front housing?

After further reading it seems that the fj80 axle is 63" wide. I also read the fj62 front axle is 58.9 inches wide. Therefore with the 3 inches added why did you thin out the fj80 width? Based on that math the front would only be ~.5 inches shorter on each than then the rear. But you still chopped off 4 inches. Any technical reason for that?

I also can get a LX450 rear axle, FF and ABS so thinking to do similar what you have setup.