With the 3FE so slow and considered such a dog when it comes to power, why aren't there any aftermarket parts to get more out of it? Is there nobody who wishes more out of their 3FE powered TLC?
Since the 3FE is slow, why no aftermarket support? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter alkaline747trio
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My guess is that there are not that many of them left on the road and that the people who want to buy something that cheap/affordable(?) are not too likely to fork out the $$($) for performance enhancing modifications.
I think there might have been a performance header or two, but don't recall anybody reporting any significant power increase from them.
There was at least one person that I remember reading about that had installed a custom turbo kit w/o any problems. Can't remember his name at the moment.
Mot
I think there might have been a performance header or two, but don't recall anybody reporting any significant power increase from them.
There was at least one person that I remember reading about that had installed a custom turbo kit w/o any problems. Can't remember his name at the moment.
Mot
Because it is not economically possible to get more out of one.
The F engines were based on a chevy straight 6 that was originally designed in the late 20's, although the Toyota engines are based off a later chevy revision. The 3FE IS the high water mark for performance in an engine that started it's life 85 years ago rated at 45 horsepower.
NorCalDoug
problems solved daily...
Because it's easier and less expensive to drop a 350 in there?
Nice comments from people that dont mess with 3FEs. There is actually a pile of stuff you can do to the best F series motor ever made. As for underpowered...have you ever driven a properly tuned 3FE? Few people have. No, it will never be a rocketship or have 200+hp but you can get a nice motor out of it for just a little bit of effort.
One of the main issues with the 3FE is that not enough are out there for there to be a "standard" plan to increase HP/tune it. The 3FE also gets quite a few deposits throughout the intake chamber from tards running cheap gas.
I tune the piss out of them on a weekly basis with excellent results but there are many simple things that also can be done to get a few more HP out of it.
Dont make fun of the 3FE or I will send tardjosh to live with you.
One of the main issues with the 3FE is that not enough are out there for there to be a "standard" plan to increase HP/tune it. The 3FE also gets quite a few deposits throughout the intake chamber from tards running cheap gas.
I tune the piss out of them on a weekly basis with excellent results but there are many simple things that also can be done to get a few more HP out of it.
Dont make fun of the 3FE or I will send tardjosh to live with you.
- Thread starter
- #7
Cheap gas under powers the 3FE? What are those simple things to do to get more ponies galloping?
NorCalDoug
problems solved daily...
An empty threat. We all know he's going to go live with some boys in VA.dd113 said:
your 80 is still gay.
(good points about the 3FE though
)
Is it really slow thou? sorry mind to ask how slow...alkaline747trio said:
There are not exactly a lot of performance parts for the 1FZ either.
In all honesty the 3FE is an awesome engine. It just happened to have been brought to the US in the middle of the smog control dark ages. The basic design is no different than the ford 300-6 or the chevy 292's. Do a little research and you will turn up a wealth of info about people effectively hotrodding these engines and running with the V8's. It will respond very well to many of the old Hot-Rodding techniques. Just for starters...
1) During the move from 2F to 3FE... shorter stroke for more revs and horsepower. To really take advantage of the revs look for a mild cam for a 2F... they are out there. At one time Toyota had the same part # for the 2F cam and the 3F cam during the overlapping years so they are compatible. Don't worry about losing low end... the 3FE is so undercammed thanks to smog you will gain across the board.
2) Richen up the mixture a little... the system on the 3FE is a bosch knock-off and will respond to tinkering with the AFM just like the early BMW's that used a similar system. Open the AFM and turn the large gear a couple of teeth to LOOSEN the spring. This will have 2 effects. Smoother idle and more top end power... both open loop running conditions. Part throttle running will be adjusted using O2 sensors.
3) Exhaust. Your engine is an air pump. Easy out makes more power. Take a page from the OBD1 1FZ and run duals all the way out the back. Use a modern high flow monolithic Cat. The original has to be getting close to giving up the ghost.
4) Timing. Advance the anemic base timing that the 3FE's use. Toyota tuned these engines to run just fine on that crap they call gas in south america/india/west africa.
Add up a bunch of little things and you get a very noticeable increase as measured by the a$$-dyno, but you will have to get creative because noone out there is going to sell you a one stop shop power package.
Good luck...
1) During the move from 2F to 3FE... shorter stroke for more revs and horsepower. To really take advantage of the revs look for a mild cam for a 2F... they are out there. At one time Toyota had the same part # for the 2F cam and the 3F cam during the overlapping years so they are compatible. Don't worry about losing low end... the 3FE is so undercammed thanks to smog you will gain across the board.
2) Richen up the mixture a little... the system on the 3FE is a bosch knock-off and will respond to tinkering with the AFM just like the early BMW's that used a similar system. Open the AFM and turn the large gear a couple of teeth to LOOSEN the spring. This will have 2 effects. Smoother idle and more top end power... both open loop running conditions. Part throttle running will be adjusted using O2 sensors.
3) Exhaust. Your engine is an air pump. Easy out makes more power. Take a page from the OBD1 1FZ and run duals all the way out the back. Use a modern high flow monolithic Cat. The original has to be getting close to giving up the ghost.
4) Timing. Advance the anemic base timing that the 3FE's use. Toyota tuned these engines to run just fine on that crap they call gas in south america/india/west africa.
Add up a bunch of little things and you get a very noticeable increase as measured by the a$$-dyno, but you will have to get creative because noone out there is going to sell you a one stop shop power package.
Good luck...
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
200hp is a very realistic mark for the 3FE... most people's qualm stems from hearing it won't hold up due to having only 4 main bearings. This does limit the HP and rpm ceiling substantially... it'll still take far more than the stock 160hp. Previous turbocharger installs prove that the bottom end of the engine can handle some power.
While most parts that are available to soup this thing up are not advertised as hi-po... they are or can be made hi-po. Cam, porting, a good exhaust (I don't think the stock exhaust manifolds are that bad), even a displacement increase with larger pistons or a 2F bottom end.... Just like any air pump, it can be made to GO!
While most parts that are available to soup this thing up are not advertised as hi-po... they are or can be made hi-po. Cam, porting, a good exhaust (I don't think the stock exhaust manifolds are that bad), even a displacement increase with larger pistons or a 2F bottom end.... Just like any air pump, it can be made to GO!
This is a really cool thread.
I really like my cruiser. I don't really care that it is not a hotrod, that's not why I bought it. but some of the things you said are cheap easy mods that can give me a little more juice on the road.
Thanks for all of the info guys.
I really like my cruiser. I don't really care that it is not a hotrod, that's not why I bought it. but some of the things you said are cheap easy mods that can give me a little more juice on the road.
Thanks for all of the info guys.
Kaderabek
GOLD Star
To the original question, short production run (1988-1989, with some titling as 1990 but considerable debate as to whether any were actually produced in 1990).
I think the 3FE is a great engine. I also think that on the highway it doesn't work well with the upper gearing of the A440F. There is simply no power to be had after about 68 mph (unless you have David massage your engine, of course).
TJK
I think the 3FE is a great engine. I also think that on the highway it doesn't work well with the upper gearing of the A440F. There is simply no power to be had after about 68 mph (unless you have David massage your engine, of course).
TJK
Advancing the timing and putting a freer flowing cat and exhaust helps a lot. I ran catless for awhile and when I went to even a high flow cat I was a little disappointed after running catless. I always thought my 3fe 80 was a real dog compared to my 94. But I was working it pretty hard with 35s and pulling a little trailer through the mountains. Now that my 94 has 35s and is pulling the same trailer I don't think it is too bad. If you want to drive fast the 3FE isn't great but if a constant steady speed is your goal it does all right. Off the line and over 70mph the 1FZ is a lot better but I think the 3FE can do OK. The other thing people fail to acknowledge is that a lot of the power loss isn't the 3FEs fault in an 80. That tranny and transfer sucks a lot of power. I've drove some FJ62s that seemed like a rocketship compared to my FJ80. The one thing my 1FZ has always surpased my 3FE powered 80 is in mileage. My 3FE got 10-13 with 35s and my 1FZ gets 13-15 with 35s. With stock tires the best the 3FE ever did was 14 and I the best the 1FZ ever did was 19. I've been thinking about doing the exhaust mods on my 1FZ to see if I can help it out some.
I know the K&N air filter has been bludgeoned to death in this forum but if we follow the "air pump" line of thought, maybe there is a tradeoff to be considered - should I be willing to accept slightly dirtier input air in exchange for a slightly better breathing (and thus more powerful) engine?
dd113 said:
Just trying to clarify my “tard” status. When you say “cheap gas” do you mean low octane, low grade (like from the jiffy mart) or both? I usually run mid-grade in my 3FE but I have never been particular where I buy it.
Mine doesnt seem to shabby at all. You dont buy a 4 door tank to race rice fags, you buy it to run them over.
Kaderabek said:
Todd,
I've personally seen a 3/90 FJ80 I should take pictures of its vin (it is in a local junkyard) and a friend has a 6/90 FJ80. I've also physically touched and drove a 2/90 FJ62. It was in Billings, Montana. The 80s were titled as 91s I believe. What is funny about the one in the junkyard is I pulled the rear driveshaft for the 91 and guy at the salvage yard swore it would not fit because of the production date. It was identical. I think his computer was showing it as a FJ62 by production date.
