Signals pooched

[T Y L E R]

Gots me some wierd signal behaviour going on ..


For about a month or more I've had no signals. I thought it might have been the trailer wiring, as it gave me troubles a few years ago. The harness was seen to be smoking, and so I simply cut it off, as I never use the hitch anyway. I sealed all the wires and was good from then on. But recently I keep blowing fuses .. the signals work anywhere from 2 blocks to 2 miles and then zap - they're gone.

Yesterday I went to take a closer look at the back again. I looked inside the side/rear panels for a trailer module I heard mentioned here on a search. I found no such module on my 97. But I am sure the problem or short is located proximal to the tail gate.

I had the driver side rear lense off yesterday checking wiring in there .. had the lenses just hanging there and I went and put the hazard on - PRESTO! they worked .. I stood there astounded I was actually seeing amber again And I waited for quite some time .. waiting for the fuse to blow yet again, but it did not! I screwed the lense back .. still all good ... BUT

When I close the tail gate bottom and top, the fuse blew! Since then I have not been able to replicate this behaviour. Strangely I have developed a new behavour..

I can turn on the signals or hazards buttons, and I will hear the relay clicking for brief periods before shutting down, or humming. BUT this never correlates to and lamps actually lighting. I attribute this to a few things, 2 of which were my doing ..

First I may have thrown a 20A fuse in the hazards for a while when testing, and that may have been too much, and messed with something. And second, when I closed the rear hatch I may have worsened some ugly short

I did manage to also pull the connector which sits just before the tailgate, so maybe I can assume the problem is not in the lower tail gate. Maybe upstream in this same bundle though ??


Can any of you help narrow the search for this gremlin? I may be tripping soon, and I NEED my signals ..



TY

 

[nakman]

The hazard and the turn signals are on different fuses, so if you turn signal fuse is blown, the hazards will still work. Also, the turn signal fuse is a 7.5 amp.. is that what you've been replacing it with? And you're not running a bunch of LED's, are you? Because they won't have the same resistance as normal bulbs and will contribute to odd behavoir. ih8electrical issues, hope you figure this out.

 

[T Y L E R]

7.5? Opps .. I've been running 15A in the signals, and 15A in the hazards. At first it was just signals, but now it's both that have the problems ..

And I think I may have messed something else deeper within the system when I used that 20A fuse in the hazards while testing because the relays work, and I get clicking, but NO lamps lite up.

Whereas when I was testing with 15A fuses, they'd blow fairly early on, but at least I'd get lights signalling.


No LED's on my 80 yet.


TY

 

[Beowulf]

TY,

There is a green wire running under the metal plate at the rear of the cargo area. The wire has been known to get pinched as it goes into the PS panel in the cargo area or shorted under the metal plate. It is part of the port installed trailer wiring.

-B-

 

[T Y L E R]

TY,

There is a green wire running under the metal plate at the rear of the cargo area. The wire has been known to get pinched as it goes into the PS panel in the cargo area or shorted under the metal plate. It is part of the port installed trailer wiring.

-B-

B, do you mean that long, width wise strip of metal on the floor at the edge of the cargo floor?



TY

 

[Beowulf]

That would be the one.
-B-

 

[RavenTai]

My green wire is just running under the carpet about a foot forward of the tailgate, probably depends on witch DILLIGAF a-hole did the port work on your 80.

The trailer converter can be in different spots, most common is in the right side near the tail light. right now the trailer converter is a big variable, if you have chopped off the harness then you need to follow that trailer harness and find that converter and remove it and return the system to stock for and go from there.

Next spot I would go to is the flasher; the hazards and turn signals use different fuses but share the same flasher.

So remove the converter replace the flasher and put in the right fuses and see what happens.

You should already know this but it is a stupid idea to put in a larger fuse after the right sized fuse blows. Fuses are sized to blow before there is any damage to the system, after the problem is fixed you put in a new fuse and are good to go, with a larger fuse installed you now have to fix you original problem plus whatever user induced collateral damage has been done.

I know a guy in high school who lost his car and an audio system that cost more than the car when his car burnt to the ground (everything after the firewall, including fuel tank) after installing too large of a fuse to "fix" a problem with a blowing fuse, said he wanted tunes for the drive home.

 

[AMMO]

And you're not running a bunch of LED's, are you? Because they won't have the same resistance as normal bulbs and will contribute to odd behavoir. ih8electrical issues, hope you figure this out.

Let's just say someone was to run all LED's... Just some guy... All turns, front, rear, and brake, all LED. How would one go about slowing them down, with a resistor? Since the LED's draw less current, how to you mimic the load of the stock setup?

Brake is not an issue, turns are, hazards are not, and I mean they would not be, if someone was to do this...

-Ammo

Sorry for the highjack TY...

 

[T Y L E R]

Ok, I just came back up from the underground garage ... after doing the following:

1 ) I followed the trailer wiring into the truck, and there is NO module .. dips*** just tapped the trailer wires into the OEM wiring .. with those cheap snap on connectors; one wire at a time I promptly disconnected them all, and taped all the scars for now.

2 ) I removed my spare tire, so I could examine some of the wires entering the tailgate from below. They look ok.

3 ) I left the harzard button engaged and started playing with wires in the DS rear compartment , and systematically disconnecting harnesses one after the other. One in particular would activate what sounded like the crapped out flasher when I'd disconnect and reconnect it repeatedly...

4 ) So far NO signal lights have been seen since earlier today, AND ..

5 ) After removing the driver side kickplate, I am convinced that my using a larger fuse this PM caused me to blow the flasher .. I can engage the hazards, and the flasher will click anywhere from once to 20 times, and then whistle and stop .. but sometimes it would click again if I smacked the second flasher with my finger a few times .. and then quit again.


So, fuses are back to normal .. the wiring from the trailer is all removed, and the flasher is pooched.

I wonder if I replace the flasher if all will be well now. Like Raven said above, I've created a second problem.


TY


PS: I have no green wire that I can find so far, but I will rip the carpet back some more, and look more thoroughly tomorrow in the sun light.

 

[Beowulf]

PS: I have no green wire that I can find so far, but I will rip the carpet back some more, and look more thoroughly tomorrow in the sun light.

Since it appears your trailer lights were DIY (i.e. *not* port installed; no module) then there probably is no green wire as that would have been part of the trailer wiring done when the vehicle was imported. You will see the wire the minute you remove the PS inner panel in the cargo area.

-B-

 

[T Y L E R]

Can I put my multimeter on the flasher and check for life? How do I go about that?


And I'm curious, what part of those flashes gets destroyed by too my current?


I'd like to pull them and check them out tomorrow and get it replaced ASAP.



TY

 

[IdahoDoug]

Ty,

Don't you have a blinker repeater mod on your outside mirrors? What bulbs are in those?

DougM

 

[T Y L E R]

Ty,

Don't you have a blinker repeater mod on your outside mirrors? What bulbs are in those?

DougM

Don't know the numbers Doug, but they are just regular bulbs, only smaller (in size) than stock...


TY

 

[RavenTai]

Can I put my multimeter on the flasher and check for life? How do I go about that?


And I'm curious, what part of those flashes gets destroyed by too my current?


I'd like to pull them and check them out tomorrow and get it replaced ASAP.



TY

TY, you should have just one flasher for both turn signals and the hazard, or at least my 96 just has one, it is located in the drivers kick panel with 4 other relays, the is the foreword most and only has 3 pins, should be a blank socket below it. if you are looking at the socket:
The pin at the bottom running horizontally is pin 1, + out to the bulbs, this one should pulse,
The upper foreword pin running vertically, pin 2 is + in and should be steady + any time the hazard is engaged or + when the key is on and the hazard is off and no power with key off hazard off,
The upper aft slot is pin 3, ground

What you would be testing for is that pin 1 pulses when either the hazard is engaged (key any position) or with key on and blinker engaged. I think it may have steady + any time pin 3 has power but will not pulse unless connected to a bulb (blinker or hazard)

you need to test the flasher wile attached to the circuit, when attached to the circuit it is hard to get probes in there to check it out, you could make 3 jumper wires with he appropriate terminals or you could try just partially inserting the flasher so you still have access to the terminals of the flasher

Or you could just replace it, from your description assuming there are not reamaining faults in the system I think it is a good possibility that the flasher has been toasted by carrying to much current to a short without protection of a fuse.

Been years since I have heard this so don’t shoot me if I am a little off here IIRC a flasher has a heating element and some kind of bimetal spring arrangement, current going to the bulbs causes the spring to disconnect the current, the element cools and contact is made again, the process repeats over and over,


witch brings us to ammo’s question, why LED don’t work well with flashers, and why you blinker acts differently when a bulb burns out, LEDs do not draw much current so the flasher does nto cycel propperly, the fix is to use a electronic flasher witch uses a timing circuit to control a relay who’s timing is independent of current draw.

But LED replacement bulbs make poor exterior lighting, the number of LEDs you can pack into a bulb the size of a incandescent bulb makes them dim and generally just a small spot of illumination on the lens

The right way to get LED tail lights would be to drill the whole reflector for many many LEDs so that there is sufficient light and it is spread over a wide area so the whole elnse appears lit.

take a look at LED tractor trailer lights and how they are arranged to work properly with LEDs. no reflector just a field of LEDs and a colored lens.

you coudl probaly pack the high end Luxeons that George uses in our dome lights into a bulbe like package but at $15 each before controller board and packaging it would get very expensive in a hurry

 

[AMMO]

The right way to get LED tail lights would be to drill the whole reflector for many many LEDs so that there is sufficient light and it is spread over a wide area so the whole elnse appears lit.

take a look at LED tractor trailer lights and how they are arranged to work properly with LEDs. no reflector just a field of LEDs and a colored lens.

you coudl probaly pack the high end Luxeons that George uses in our dome lights into a bulbe like package but at $15 each before controller board and packaging it would get very expensive in a hurry

Or someone might do this....

Cats out the bag now.

 

[RavenTai]

ahhh nice, need to look for an electronic flasher.

 

[T Y L E R]

Hmmm..

I went out today at work, into the parking lot to check the relay. I decided that because the flasher unit would click for a while when activated I would try something. I couldn't get on the PC at work to check above on the location of the correct relay, so I systematically removed them and after each one I activated the hazard switch .. each time gleefully expecting there to be nothing - hence identifying the correct flasher, and then replacing it with a new one I'd buy. Buy after each flasher/relay .. all five in total, I had nothing to show for it all. I'd swear after each one I removed the hazard would click away .. it's as though there's some hidden flasher unit there somewhere. It was a balmy -25 out and my head and fingers were numb, and beyond only the crudest gross motor actions, so I slammed the doors, and went back inside.

The ones I checked were in two vertical columns .. 3 silver ones above each other, and then a silver, and black above each other, but more aftward. Maybe I missed it because the install guy has my Viper crap all taped up under there .. obscuring the location of the actual flasher unit.


TY

 

[yellowchaosfj80]

TY my 2cs I just had my battery run down the other night ! and I was trying to find the problem and to my amazement ,
once I jumpped the truck ! the rear wipper was not working , so I started looking And when I slammed the top hach it worked ! So I looked under the wires that run from the top door to the roof and polled the roof lining and the wires had a small cut and exposeing the bare wires! Fixed the wires and all is well !

 

[T Y L E R]

TY my 2cs I just had my battery run down the other night ! and I was trying to find the problem and to my amazement ,
once I jumpped the truck ! the rear wipper was not working , so I started looking And when I slammed the top hach it worked ! So I looked under the wires that run from the top door to the roof and polled the roof lining and the wires had a small cut and exposeing the bare wires! Fixed the wires and all is well !

Well you should have seen the wires that pass down thru the rear DS panel and under the truck to the tailgate etc .. I checked them a few times and didn't see any cuts, but damn .. the rubber grommet had popped off, and the whole bundle of wire were hanging down thru that semi-sharp circular hole's edge Still suspicious that some may have been nicked.

Still wonder when I replace the correct flasher if I will still have a problem somewhere like you mention in the rear gate wiring .. just too odd that all was well the other nite until I slammed that sucker closed. I'll have to check after I get a new flasher unit.


I don't think the upper bake light is involved in the hazard/signal circuit, but I may as well eyeball those wires as well ..






TY

 

[T Y L E R]

Thanks for the ideas guys.

And Raven thanks for helping hone in on the flasher unit. I went back under there today with a light so I could actually see what I was doing, and d'uh the flasher actually says 'flasher' on it in blue print.

I pulled the thing out and went to a used auto parts place, and they produced a duplicate for me for $11 CDN. Threw it in, and everything has worked since!

I imagine, if I don't blow a fuse in the next day or so, it will be because I ripped out all that trailer wiring, and replaced the grommet where the wiring harness passes thru the sheet metal down towards the rear tailgate, so the wires aren't resting on that metal's edge.


Very happy to have these working for my trip!






TY