Should I raise my 80 series? (1 Viewer)

[blakew]

Hey!

1994 1HZJ80R- stock and reasonably tidy, white, unfortunately
I want to upgrade the suspension as im pulling a 2 tonne coffee trailer. I’m also considering raising the suspension, for the rare occasion I do go off road, with a 2t coffee trailer. And I would love to take her out bush occasionally, but I can kinda do that already. I’m not very experienced yet with Working on Landcruisers but I’ve done a few things.

What should I consider replacing when doing this job? I was thinking 3”, but I pulled that no from the sky. Also without considering what the best height would be. Obviously I don’t want to go over board and cause unnecessary wear, as I would imagine the higher the more wear. She’s a work horse, and done 330k.

Without the trailer I usually have at least 150kg in the back (tools), sometimes more, and the trailer is a single axel 2t.

Can you recommend any good posts, videos on this? I’ve done a scan and I’m not across a lot of the jargon. And wanted to make sure I’m not making a big mistake with the 3’s.

The 80 already slides out around corners in the back end when it’s a bit wet or bumpy. I think it’s because the old shocks and springs are shot (or the opposite, too rigid). And the tyres are on/off road. The ride is very bumpy and not much control. I just take it slow.

Thank team, always sound advice

 

[SaturnAscends]

I would put on some stock height springs from Dobinson or OME. You'll still see some lift by replacing the saggy originals.

From your description of the ride it sounds like your suspension is in need of.a serious overhaul: might wanna replace bushings while you're at it. Some of that could be the tires though.

 

[dsmud4u]

For the ocasional off-road I would do a 2-2.5” at most. When going 3” and beyond your cost go up exponentially requiring you to ultimately picking up a set of new radius arms. Yes there are other methods to correct your caster but this seems to be the easiest…a set it and forget it.

The short answer is no. Continue enjoying it as is until you find yourself requiring the lift…unless you already have to replace worn out suspension.

 

[OffRoadScott]

This topic is discussed a lot. I learned the hard way and bought an OME 2.5 medium kit from Slee. But did not like the stink bug look, front lower than the rear. So I swapped out the front shocks/springs for OME 850J and the longer shocks.

People have discussed Dobinsons and how the progressive springs offer a great ride, OME can be a little harsh but that also depends on the spring too.

As far as correcting caster, there are several options. OME makes caster bushings haven't heard good things about these bushings as far as longevity. @Delta VS makes a great set of new radius arms based off amount of lift. There are caster plates that can help, I am running caster plates for a 4" lift and my front end still wanders a little. Also, @eimkeith makes a RAM mount for the 80 that will lower and push your radius arms forward to allow for a larger tire and helps correct caster too.

 

[blakew]

I would put on some stock height springs from Dobinson or OME. You'll still see some lift by replacing the saggy originals.

From your description of the ride it sounds like your suspension is in need of.a serious overhaul: might wanna replace bushings while you're at it. Some of that could be the tires though.

That’s my hunch. Very rough ride. And the more I thought about it the more I kept coming back to stock. She blows a bit of smoke, I don’t want to push her more then I have to.

By bushings you mean the control arm bushings? I’ve replaced back ones, need to replace front.

 

[blakew]

This topic is discussed a lot. I learned the hard way and bought an OME 2.5 medium kit from Slee. But did not like the stink bug look, front lower than the rear. So I swapped out the front shocks/springs for OME 850J and the longer shocks.

People have discussed Dobinsons and how the progressive springs offer a great ride, OME can be a little harsh but that also depends on the spring too.

As far as correcting caster, there are several options. OME makes caster bushings haven't heard good things about these bushings as far as longevity. @Delta VS makes a great set of new radius arms based off amount of lift. There are caster plates that can help, I am running caster plates for a 4" lift and my front end still wanders a little. Also, @eimkeith makes a RAM mount for the 80 that will lower and push your radius arms forward to allow for a larger tire and helps correct caster too.

Great answer. So if I only raised 2”, would
I need to correct the caster, or need these plates?

I’ve got a set of bushings, awaiting installation.

But if I have to buy new control arms and radius arms, then I think I’ll hold off and see what standard fresh shock/springs feels like. I’ve just bought the girl and didn’t see the bit of work needing attention, so far a bit of a money pit, but I have faith. She’s registered and driving now!

I think I’ll be looking at super heavy springs though. And better shocks I would say.

 

[SaturnAscends]

That’s my hunch. Very rough ride. And the more I thought about it the more I kept coming back to stock. She blows a bit of smoke, I don’t want to push her more then I have to.

By bushings you mean the control arm bushings? I’ve replaced back ones, need to replace front.

Yeah panhard bushings should help too

 

[OffRoadScott]

Great answer. So if I only raised 2”, would
I need to correct the caster, or need these plates?

I’ve got a set of bushings, awaiting installation.

But if I have to buy new control arms and radius arms, then I think I’ll hold off and see what standard fresh shock/springs feels like. I’ve just bought the girl and didn’t see the bit of work needing attention, so far a bit of a money pit, but I have faith. She’s registered and driving now!

I think I’ll be looking at super heavy springs though. And better shocks I would say.

If you raise it 2" you wont need caster correct. You might be amazed how much a stock lift might raise your rig, assuming your suspension is the original factory suspension.

I would only recommend buying new control arms/radius arms for 3" of lift or more and that goes for caster bushing as well.

Heavy springs are only needed if you plan on adding bumpers/racks/drawers/winch etc.

As far as bushings, if you can replace it with a factory bushing or equal you should be good.

 

[White Stripe]

Install some stock height coils and airbags in the rear for towing.replace shocks with Toyota shocks.

 

[blakew]

If you raise it 2" you wont need caster correct. You might be amazed how much a stock lift might raise your rig, assuming your suspension is the original factory suspension.

I would only recommend buying new control arms/radius arms for 3" of lift or more and that goes for caster bushing as well.

Heavy springs are only needed if you plan on adding bumpers/racks/drawers/winch etc.

As far as bushings, if you can replace it with a factory bushing or equal you should be good.

Awesome! That what I wanted to hear. Now I’m deciding between 2” and stock. I need to think about this one.
Thanks for the help.

 

[blakew]

Install some stock height coils and airbags in the rear for towing.replace shocks with Toyota shocks.

Ah yes, airbags. Thank you for reminding me

But shouldn’t the coils have a higher load capacity if I plan on keeping them loaded?
Im thinking 200kg or more of constant load, when considering gas cylinders, milk, fridge and water surplus, I’m concerned standard 100’s will be enough.

I think you’re right tho. that’s all that needs to be done. Had a look and Toyota standard shocks are reasonably cheap. But brands like dobinsons seem more expensive. Is the price difference justified? I suppose the technology changes.

But the simple road is making much more sense. Thanks.

 

[White Stripe]

I suppose a higher load spring would be a good idea. I don't know. Maybe just try airbags to start with fresh shocks.

 

[jpoole]

Near stock height, weight and spring rates the OE Tokico shocks are very good and may outperform most/all of the common aftermarket options. If you alter spring rates (heavier/stiffer springs) a lot or run really high loads you may change the damping needed and stiffer aftermarket shocks may be a better fit. The original shocks were designed for the 80 specifically and in my mind benefit from that vs many of the lower cost aftermarket shocks that are more universally designed and valved.

My experience with aftermarket shocks was with what came with my 80 (yellow, I forgot the brand but likely low-end Monroe). My 80 was/is still on original springs and has 30mm spacers all around yielding about 21.5" center of hub to bottom of flare all around. With the yellow shocks my 80 was ok unloaded but as soon as I added weight, particularly in the roof-top box, I'd get a lot of wallowing to the point that it became dangerous on the highway. I installed the OEM Tokico shocks and that problem disappeared.

Our 80 has had a set of air bags out back for the last few years and think they are a great match for how we use the 80. The real benefit of the air bags in my opinion is the flexibility they give an 80 to adjust from light to heavy loads with a consistent ride height and feel.

We've towed our 3k pound popup camper around the US a good bit with the 80 and even with plenty of gear weight inside and some weight on the roof it has handled and driven well in those conditions and the Tokico shocks/airbags have kept up.

I'd try to match your springs to your typical base weight, meaning if you know you'll be loaded up all of the time then talk to a vendor/expert and do your research to find springs that can support the weight you'll want to carry at the ride height you are targeting. I think you'll likely be better served by stiffer than stock springs, at least in the rear, given the weight you'll be carrying all of the time. If you'll be using the 80 unloaded a decent amount of time then stock spring rates plus air bags (for when loaded) make sense, otherwise match your springs to your typical base weight and then add the air bags if you'll be adding even more weight periodically.

I'll also second the general advice to keep the lift below 2" and, if it hasn't been mentioned, I'll throw out that you may want to keep tire sizes at or below 33" (285/75/16). A lower center of gravity is better when loaded up and you'll have better acceleration and braking with the smaller tires, etc.

Finally, it's possible that your caster numbers will get noticeably low with even an inch or so of lift. I don't know if my 80 is just an oddball but after the 30mm spacers on old/stock springs I dropped to about .5 degree (positive) of caster vs the 3 degree target caster. At .5 degrees the 80 tended to wander on the highway and needed extra toe-in to stop bump induced wheel shimmy. I added caster correction and those problems were all resolved. Fortunately, if you end up with low caster after minimal lift you can consider the "Washer Mod" (search here on mud) and use that for a low-cost and solid caster adjustment solution when not much caster is needed.

 

[blakew]

Near stock height, weight and spring rates the OE Tokico shocks are very good and may outperform most/all of the common aftermarket options. If you alter spring rates (heavier/stiffer springs) a lot or run really high loads you may change the damping needed and stiffer aftermarket shocks may be a better fit. The original shocks were designed for the 80 specifically and in my mind benefit from that vs many of the lower cost aftermarket shocks that are more universally designed and valved.

My experience with aftermarket shocks was with what came with my 80 (yellow, I forgot the brand but likely low-end Monroe). My 80 was/is still on original springs and has 30mm spacers all around yielding about 21.5" center of hub to bottom of flare all around. With the yellow shocks my 80 was ok unloaded but as soon as I added weight, particularly in the roof-top box, I'd get a lot of wallowing to the point that it became dangerous on the highway. I installed the OEM Tokico shocks and that problem disappeared.

Our 80 has had a set of air bags out back for the last few years and think they are a great match for how we use the 80. The real benefit of the air bags in my opinion is the flexibility they give an 80 to adjust from light to heavy loads with a consistent ride height and feel.

We've towed our 3k pound popup camper around the US a good bit with the 80 and even with plenty of gear weight inside and some weight on the roof it has handled and driven well in those conditions and the Tokico shocks/airbags have kept up.

I'd try to match your springs to your typical base weight, meaning if you know you'll be loaded up all of the time then talk to a vendor/expert and do your research to find springs that can support the weight you'll want to carry at the ride height you are targeting. I think you'll likely be better served by stiffer than stock springs, at least in the rear, given the weight you'll be carrying all of the time. If you'll be using the 80 unloaded a decent amount of time then stock spring rates plus air bags (for when loaded) make sense, otherwise match your springs to your typical base weight and then add the air bags if you'll be adding even more weight periodically.

I'll also second the general advice to keep the lift below 2" and, if it hasn't been mentioned, I'll throw out that you may want to keep tire sizes at or below 33" (285/75/16). A lower center of gravity is better when loaded up and you'll have better acceleration and braking with the smaller tires, etc.

Finally, it's possible that your caster numbers will get noticeably low with even an inch or so of lift. I don't know if my 80 is just an oddball but after the 30mm spacers on old/stock springs I dropped to about .5 degree (positive) of caster vs the 3 degree target caster. At .5 degrees the 80 tended to wander on the highway and needed extra toe-in to stop bump induced wheel shimmy. I added caster correction and those problems were all resolved. Fortunately, if you end up with low caster after minimal lift you can consider the "Washer Mod" (search here on mud) and use that for a low-cost and solid caster adjustment solution when not much caster is needed.

Very informative. I’m thinking keep the cruiser the same height. It has done everything I’ve wanted to do thus far and is pretty similar to my trailer height when level. I think swapping the springs for slightly heavier then stock, and new shocks. The airbags will take out the sag of the trailer force, which will accomodate for the need to increase the coil compression force… is how I understand it based on how I interrupted this. So then I’m just concerned with how much I have in the boot, which most of the time, will only be 150kg. (But knowing me, I’ll probably get 350 in there)

I need to look into these airbags. Do they range in quality? Is there much that can go wrong with them?

I’m reasonably sure the title of my thread should be, is my suspension gone, and do I need airbags?

Thanks