Shop-Rebuilt Knuckles; No Moly in Plug Hole (1 Viewer)

[Kernal]

Just saw this, adding my voice, ditto to all the above. No question that the mechanic didn't know what he was doing with this type of front axle.

Could have been worse, someone else posted up how his mechanic filled
the knuckles with gear oil as he assumed the Land Cruiser was just like a Land Rover front axle.

It's been discussed before how grease added via the inspection port will find it's way into the CV joints and spindle bushings (Tools R Us rest in peace, and others).

Post #9:

Slee Spindle Grease Tool

Out of curiousity I’ve been searching on this subject and can find nothing but mixed answers. Discussion of bring up everything from “moly grease fluidity”, “swirling effect of a spinning birfield”, and I even searched for moly grease viscosity test and found no solid answers as to if the...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[ocinataS]

Just saw this, adding my voice, ditto to all the above. No question that the mechanic didn't know what he was doing with this type of front axle.

Could have been worse, someone else posted up how his mechanic filled
the knuckles with gear oil as he assumed the Land Cruiser was just like a Land Rover front axle.

I just talked to the mechanic again about the FSM directions to grease knuckles 3/4 full. He said that's "old information" and that it does more harm than good. Talked about heat buildup and drag while spinning. I told him I'd still like them filled, so going to do that in a few days.

What was interesting though is that he named various Toyota specialty shops, including Valley Hybrids, which is somewhat local to me and has a good rep here on MUD, and said that all of them do the same as his shop. Is this true? Most of what I've read and seen says the opposite.

 

[Kernal]

Nope:

Start watching around 35:30 to see the part about packing the knuckle:





Start around 4:20 on this one:

 

[BILT4ME]

I just talked to the mechanic again about the FSM directions to grease knuckles 3/4 full. He said that's "old information" and that it does more harm than good. Talked about heat buildup and drag while spinning. I told him I'd still like them filled, so going to do that in a few days.

What was interesting though is that he named various Toyota specialty shops, including Valley Hybrids, which is somewhat local to me and has a good rep here on MUD, and said that all of them do the same as his shop. Is this true? Most of what I've read and seen says the opposite.

@orangefj45 Is this what you do?

Or is he getting the smoke blowing treatment......

I think I know.....

 

[ocinataS]

@orangefj45 Is this what you do?

Or is he getting the smoke blowing treatment......

I think I know.....

Guys, he wasn't blowing smoke. A respected MUD mechanic got in touch with me and backed my mechanic's opinion. Birfs need to be packed, but not the knuckles. This might be one of the biggest Cruiser myths.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

"Where there is grease, there is not water." I've always packed the knuckles mostly full. I've done it just like the FSM recommends.

Myth? Doubtful. Not a huge thing, but keep an open mind. In the end, it's more likely than not, that the FSM is right, and was right for 40 years.

 

[Kernal]

Two things: 1) if it ain't broke 2) I'm not a mechanic, not an expert in anything mechanical, but I don't buy it.

Sounds to me like one mechanic decided one day it was a waste of his time to pack the knuckles and then others followed him.

To my understanding the grease helps keep the water out, it acts as a reservoir to rejuvenate/renew the grease in the CV joints, it provides grease to the spindle bushings/bearings, and even to some extent may help freshen the grease in the trunnion bearings.

You have 60 years of Land Cruisers (25 series, 40 series, 60 series, 70 series which are still being made, 80 series, and 105 series) all with the same basic axle design. And then one mechanic decides he knows better than 3-4 generations of Toyota engineers, really??

Where is the TSB or ? Service Update from Toyota telling everyone they've been doing it wrong, or that the procedure has been changed??

Whomever is spreading this Land Cruiser Heresy should come on the forum and justify to MUD, and Toyota, why everyone should change how their front axles are serviced.

Doesn't seem logical or based on any engineering data.

My two cents (think I need to lay off on the chocolate covered coffee beans)

 

[LandLocked93]

It’s a Toyota specialty shop, so I thought it’d be fine.

Read the whole thing to this part...Heysoos H
Toyota trucks??

 

[clx16]

Couple critical thinking questions. Did he explain why molly grease is old information too? It seems he didn't use that. Of course i realize there is red grease out there that is molly fortified but only know of one mud member that has used that.

other question.. More harm than good. I have 24 year old birfs in mine. Where can i find the harm that has been caused over the nearly 300k of driving? I just need to know specifically where the harm is found. slightly warmer isn't harm. its a status so we can start confirming damage and talk to toyota to update their service updates.

 

[ppc]

Guys, he wasn't blowing smoke. A respected MUD mechanic got in touch with me and backed my mechanic's opinion. Birfs need to be packed, but not the knuckles. This might be one of the biggest Cruiser myths.

If your two expert mechanics are correct with their methods then why do you have rubbing noises coming from the left wheel area?

 

[-Spike-]

@ocinataS Please do us the service of naming this shop.

The (moly-fortified) grease is in the knuckle to lube the bushing and keep grease in the birfield, there's no arguing that. Highly likely that the bushing is dry. Arguing that the grease would harm something is bull****. The grease will if anything transfer heat out of the birfield to the housing and out. The heat isn't being generated by the grease.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Now I'm tempted to head across to the Toyota dealer and take a spanner and cable-tie and see if I can investigate a new VDJ79, they're mostly parked close to the office though so it might not fly.

 

[ocinataS]

@ocinataS Please do us the service of naming this shop.

That’s not necessary. I’m not going to do that. What’s important here is to know there are differing views on this. Professionals who have done hundreds of rebuilds have come to this conclusion after seeing these vehicles perform for decades under varying conditions. I’m not qualified to second guess that. There are probably other pros who follow decades-old FSMs. It’s up to you who to trust and to make sure the work gets done how you prefer.

As for what’s causing my noise, that’s still to be determined.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

IMHO, Toyota knew what they were doing here and it beggars belief that a shop would firstly not follow FSM instructions and second, state that it's the correct way to do it as the FSM is outdated.

Would be interested to see what @orangefj45 has to say about this.

 

[greentruck]

You can judge a lot about the health of your birfs by seeing the witness marks from the moly on the shiny ball on the outside. If there's just grease on the birf itself and no pool it's swimming in, then there won't be much if any witness. Usually, that is a sign you either need to fill with more moly or you are going to tear things down to see what's up inside. Is the ball dry of grease or does it look like the moly is keeping it lubed? That will tell you what you need to know - or at least it has for decades.

 

[DiscoCam]

Yes they messed up. Have them redo it. I doubt any damage was caused by just using lithium grease, as long as there was some sort of grease in there it should probably be OK. But there needs to be molybdenum grease in there for sure. They messed up, show them the facts, they should redo it.

 

[Defterdar]

If the knuckle is not intented to hold a specific amount of grease, then why isn't the birf fitted with a boot to hold in the grease, when it turns/slings out the packed grease?
I think it's a nobrainer that the knuckle is meant to be packed.

I did mine myself and i don't regret it - now i know what have been done to it and i can ask myself if it was done accordingly to the FSM, which i personally think it was == i sleep better at night

As for the heat buildup argument... it ain't no racing car..

 

[Comet]

Well, at least have him knock off the stated labor rates for packing the birfs with moly. I am sure you were charged full stated labor rates for the job. Then fill them yourself. FSM is not wrong, your technician (read NOT MECHANIC) is wrong. Why would Toyota make such a large housing to surround the birfield with that much open air space? With this logic, I am guessing that I only need a quart of oil for an oil change vs what the specification calls for. Just have to keep the birf from rusting? I call foul on this argument. Metal on metal contact causes wear, spindle bearings are hard metal but I have never seen metal survive in a starvation scenario.

 

[Cruzerman]

I just talked to the mechanic again about the FSM directions to grease knuckles 3/4 full. He said that's "old information" and that it does more harm than good. Talked about heat buildup and drag while spinning. I told him I'd still like them filled, so going to do that in a few days.

What was interesting though is that he named various Toyota specialty shops, including Valley Hybrids, which is somewhat local to me and has a good rep here on MUD, and said that all of them do the same as his shop. Is this true? Most of what I've read and seen says the opposite.

There is no way I would let this person touch my rig again. Not only an idiot, but a lying idiot.

 

[retrofive]

IMHO, Toyota knew what they were doing here and it beggars belief that a shop would firstly not follow FSM instructions and second, state that it's the correct way to do it as the FSM is outdated.

Would be interested to see what @orangefj45 has to say about this.

I would love to hear this.