Shackle flip ok for truck with camper? (1 Viewer)

[drewgold]

Not sure where the best pace to post this is but figured others may have considered this as part of their expedition builds so hoping there is someone out there who can offer their expertise.

Looking for some feedback from those who may have tried or know about the effects of flipped shackles and how they handle the weight of a camper, especially when it comes to moderate/aggressive off-roading.

The Toyota truck in question is an unusual beast, it's a JDM Toyota Dyna:

The max payload for the truck is rated at 1.25 tons (3100kg GVWR) and my camper weighs about 750lbs empty. (I'm often in the neighborhood of 2800-3000kg when fully loaded)

I'm trying to decide what the best approach for lifting the rear approximately 2" is. A new leaf pack would be the best option however would be full custom and is out of my budget for the time being so I'm exploring other options. I have been debating flipping the shackles as the stock brackets allow for easy flipping with no modifications required. My concern is going from a shackle in compression (leaf eye above the shackle mount) to a shackle in tension and how this may (or may not) handle my camper weight and the demads of offroading.

The other option would be to go with a 1" lift block (Something like the Low Range Offroad 1" billet aluminum blocks for Tundras) and a Tuff Country add a leaf for a Tundra and leave the shackles as-is.
I drive the truck daily for work so both on and off road comfort are important.

Any recommendations as to the best path ahead?

 

[RHINO]

i'm not really sure a shackle flip would affect anything, many trucks out there run shackles in both configs and carry plenty of weight. one of the concerns i have is the angle of pinion change and driveline vibes induced. you'd most likely need to add degree shims, at which point you might as well just do the 1" lift blocks.

such a small block would be neglegible for anything torsional. thats my 2 pennies.

 

[drewgold]

i'm not really sure a shackle flip would affect anything, many trucks out there run shackles in both configs and carry plenty of weight. one of the concerns i have is the angle of pinion change and driveline vibes induced. you'd most likely need to add degree shims, at which point you might as well just do the 1" lift blocks.

such a small block would be neglegible for anything torsional. thats my 2 pennies.

I had kind of figured that a 1” block wouldn't be too substantial for additional torsional forces. Could get a block with a 1 degree angle and hopefully keep the pinion in the correct range.

 

[RHINO]

i dont think the pinion angle will fall out of spec with a small spring lift, (block, add leaf ect)

 

[cruiserpilot]

I’m just asking what you mean by shackle flip. Usually shackle reversal is taking the front shackle
and moving it to rear of front spring and solid mounting the front of spring. Usually done for handling.
But most of the kits then decided to add 3” to compensate for the mounting of the spring hanger on
the bottom of the frame at the rear end of the spring.
Is this what you are referring to?

 

[drewgold]

Thanks for asking, I realize it may not be clear.
In my case I’m referring to the rear leafs and flipping the shackle from a position with the leaf above the shackle frame mount to a position where the leaf is below the shackle mount. Hope that makes sense!

 

[cruiserpilot]

Thanks for asking, I realize it may not be clear.
In my case I’m referring to the rear leafs and flipping the shackle from a position with the leaf above the shackle frame mount to a position where the leaf is below the shackle mount. Hope that makes sense!

Ok, that does make sense. Toyota Tundra’s are like that. Shackle flip won’t make any difference since that
is how Land Cruisers rear springs are set up. What I would recommend if you do that is a good
set of airbags to compensate. They really improve stability and load carrying, with no loss off road.
Post a pic of your current rear spring just so I’m not wrong in understanding.

BTW, would you mind posting a pic of that camper unit? And inside. I’m curious as to how it only
weighs 750 pounds. I’d like something really light for my ‘07 Tundra or to pop onto my utility trailer

 

[drewgold]

Ok, that does make sense. Toyota Tundra’s are like that. Shackle flip won’t make any difference since that
is how Land Cruisers rear springs are set up. What I would recommend if you do that is a good
set of airbags to compensate. They really improve stability and load carrying, with no loss off road.
Post a pic of your current rear spring just so I’m not wrong in understanding.

BTW, would you mind posting a pic of that camper unit? And inside. I’m curious as to how it only
weighs 750 pounds. I’d like something really light for my ‘07 Tundra or to pop onto my utility trailer

I’ll post up some pics later today!

As for airbags, I would definitely like a set but have been worried about finding something that won’t limit suspension travel off-road or require limiting straps. Any suggestions?
Are there airbags that can be mounted on the axle closer to the differential? Many I have seen mount out near or on the leaf springs which means I would need something that can accommodate a length of about 4” compression to about 15” extension (haven’t measured full extension yet however.)
Definitely open to other options that would allow for full travel.

 

[cruiserpilot]

I got the BOSS triple bags for my 60. I run between 8-15 psi. I don't know where you are planning to go with the Dyna, but
this truck goes anywhere. There is a vendor here on MUD. I think SloCruisers, but dont' recall exactly.

 

[drewgold]

@cruiserpilot

Here’s some pics of my suspension. I have thrown some SumoSprings on to try to help with carrying the load when I’m full of gear but not a real fan of them off-road. They just don’t seem to compress enough.

And here’s some pics of my camper, still a work in progress, very basic inside at the moment. With the shelves, drawers and bed it’s probably closer to 1000lbs, 750lbs was just the ‘bare’ or empty unit weight I could find online listed by the manufacturer. I also shortened the unit a foot from 8’ to 7’.
My plan is to re-orient the bed to go across, the unit is just over 6’ wide so would be just enough room and free up a lot more space inside.
It’s made of aluminum which helps keep the weight reasonable.

 

[cruiserpilot]

I put Sumos on the front of my truck. They actually work really nicely on smoothing out
‘diving’ off-road and those surprise bumps. They aren’t supposed to compress as they are
sold as poor-mans airbag. They are rated to take a load, not compress much. I liken them
to a compressible bump stop. I’ll post a pic from my laptop tomorrow.
You aren’t going to over flex the Boss Airbags, not with that suspension.

 

[drewgold]

Thanks! Just had a quick look at the Boss website, for the triple bags they list max compression at around 3” and extension at about 15” should work perfectly for me! Plenty of range. Thank you for the recommendation!
How long have you had your bags?

 

[Mr Chuck Norris]

Yes, a shackle flip would be fine.

BUT... Those shackles will most likely buckle and fail in compression. They are under tension now. So plan to buy or fab some beefier shackles which can range from $25 (DIY) to $100+ (off the shelf bolt-on).

You'll need to adjust your bumpstops down the corresponding ~2" as to not over-compress your springs and bend/fatigue them.

Then you'll need longer shocks as the axle will now have ~2" more droop. Another option is to relocate the shock mounts.

Next up is the brake line which may need to be extended or relocated, as well as the e-brake cable. If there is a load sensing proportioning valve that will need to be relocated or adjusted too.

Lastly, the pinion angle will change. This can be fixed with axle shims, and you'll need new u-bolts when you do that.

I'm probably missing something too. ABS wires if it has them, breather hoses, and anything else that goes to the rear axle will need to be considered.

 

[drewgold]

Thanks for all the info, my concern with a flip is definitely whether the shackles will hold up in compression: Will have to see if I can find someone to fab a set for me if I go the flip route.

And good call re the load sensing valve and brake lines, hadn’t actually given that thought yet.

I do have new longer shocks on order so all set there regardless of which route I take.

Really appreciate the feedback!

 

[drewgold]

@cruiserpilot
Was there a specific mounting kit for your vehicle from Boss or did you fab something?
Also, what are your thoughts on the Boss bags vs. the Firestone bags with a Daystar cradle? I just came across the cradle setup which seems like a good option too, may come down to price and availability.

 

[cruiserpilot]

The BOSS bags were specific to land cruiser with a lift kit. Remove bump stop.
Insert airbags. Easy. I think @SLOCRUISER is a dealer if I remember.

 

[cruiserpilot]

You could mount the BOSS bags inside of your springs on the axle with another set of ubolts by the looks.
Here are some pics of mine. I put the SUMO springs up front, they had the same thread as the bumpstop.
Took a couple of minutes to install, they were for a Toyota truck, not sure which one. But they are the
BLUE - which determines their load ability.

 

[drewgold]

Nice setup! Jealous of this leaf packs!

I had thought the same thing about just mounting the bags to the axle in-board of the springs, worth exploring. Will have to take a look at what I could mount the top of the bags to.

I have IFS suspension up front so different ball-game there.

 

[cruiserpilot]

I have IFS suspension up front so different ball-game there.

Coils, right? Just get the internal coil spring airbag. They don't need much air to do a lot, make a difference.

Damn, should have messaged you. Just came through Vancouver from a trip.

 

[drewgold]

Coils, right? Just get the internal coil spring airbag. They don't need much air to do a lot, make a difference.

Damn, should have messaged you. Just came through Vancouver from a trip.

No, they’re torsion bars up front. I have stiffer bars which help, but tough to mount bags of any sort up front unfortunately.