Sears Battery Help Please!

[Randy88FJ62]

I drained my battery completely during a trip to death valley two weekends ago being an idot and running my aux IPF offroad lights for about 3 hours at night on dirt roads getting into Saline Valley. Because of this I learned that my stock voltmeter gauge doesn’t really tell me much as it looked good during the drive in. The next morning the battery was completely dead, meaning that not even the clock would come on when I turned the key to the ignition position. I got a jump and headed back to civilization.

I got the battery at Sears, it’s a diehard S39990/k437413 with 725 CCA. It’s less than a year old so they should replace it for free. They checked the battery by doing a 2 hour long test where they charge it back up. They come back out to me and say they charged the battery and it tested good. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and took the battery back. It worked fine for about a week and yesterday I couldn’t start the car. I had to get a jump start. This whole week I had the battery I could feel that the battery was struggling and barely getting by.

I take the battery back in and tell them that it’s not holding a charge and I would like it replaced. They tell me they need their manager to authorize it. I’m going in to see the guy today. I assume he’s going to tell me that the battery “tests good’ and that they can charge it for me.

What can I do to encourage them to replace it?

I checked all my grounds, alternator, starter, battery connections and so forth. Everything works fine so I don’t think the problem lies elsewhere.

Who knows enough about batteries to help me explain to them why they should replace it even though their battery tester says it’s good?

When you drain a battery all the way doesn’t it damage the cells? What explanation can I use to convince them to replace it?

I will be getting a dual battery setup, a higher output alternator, and a more accurate voltmeter in the future to prevent this type of situation from happening again.

 

[Michael Hanson]

Demand a new one nicely.MIke

 

[Cruiserdrew]

DO you know for sure that you don't have another drain?

Usually there is something else sucking down the power, and often that something is the diode rectifier in the alternator starting to fail. Also be sure there are not any dome light on at night when it's shut down.

 

[Mace]

up hill battle

Have you checked your charging system/cables?

If they did a load test, the battery is most likely fine.

 

[BG_TX]

I agree... request/demand a new one. Just tell them the thing went dead or something crazy until they replace it (take no ownership of the problem).

When my transmission went out I would periodically start the wagon to keep the juices flowing, etc while I waited for the rebuilt one to arrive from AUS. I had a brand new DieHard that I purchased from Sears that I installed shortly before the transmission went out but cranking the wagon for several weeks without allowing it to charge drained the battery.

From experience, cranking batteries do not perform well when drained completely even when fully re-charged. After I got the rebuilt transmission installed and the wagon on the road I installed the back-up cheap-o battery and took the DieHard back to Sears and complained that it was dead. They recharged it, put load tests on it and said it is holding a charge and seems fine but I declined the original and requested a new one. I explained it is not a deep cycle battery, it is cranking battery and from experience it will never be like new since it was drained once.

They replaced it with a new one…

 

[Dunbar]

Those battery tests are far from perfect. My buddy had his 2 batteries in his F250 diesel tested after they repeatedly would not hold a charge. The tester said they were good both times. He replaced the alternator and the same damn thing happened.

I had 2 known good batteries of the same size and manufacture and dropped them in his truck and the problem went away.

My Dad's BMW's battery tested good at VatoZone, where he purchased it a year before. It's good they said, buy one of our alternators. Bull Hockey said I. Dad slapped in a different battery and the problem went away.

See if they manager will let you deduct the price of the battery you have from a Die Hard Platinum (manufactured by Odyssey) and buy one. Problem solved.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I will be going through the whole system tonight before going over again. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Can anyone please explain why a standard battery would not be the same after it has been discharged? I know the difference between a deep cycle and a standard one, just looking to learn more about the battery itself.

 

[Dunbar]

Read about the 12 volt side of life for some good info on batteries, inverters, solar cells etc.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I will be going through the whole system tonight before going over again. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Can anyone please explain why a standard battery would not be the same after it has been discharged? I know the difference between a deep cycle and a standard one, just looking to learn more about the battery itself.

I'm not sure of the exact reason, but it is true that starting batteries do not like to cycle at all. They are best used to crank where maybe 1% of their stored power is drained, and then quickly recharged. If repeatedly drained, they loose the ability to hold a full charge very quickly-just a couple of deep full drains and they are done. I know this because my son is CONSTANTLY leaving the FJ62 lights on, and we've been through 2 starting batteries in the last year. He recently got a Kirkland deep cycle so we'll at least have a chance of salvaging the battery after a full drain.

Even a deep cycle battery has a limited number of times it can cycle and I think they are rated at 150 cycles or something like that.

For Land Cruiser use where you do a number of different things with it, including running fridges or lights with the motor off, it makes sense to have a deep cycle battery that can also serve as a starting battery. On the cheap end is the Kirkland Marine Group 27, and on the expensive end is the Optima yellow or blue top batteries. I've been using the Kirkland (Costco) Marine battery for several seasons, which I consider excellent for the $50 it cost when new.

 

[Tofudebeest]

Those battery tests are far from perfect. My buddy had his 2 batteries in his F250 diesel tested after they repeatedly would not hold a charge. The tester said they were good both times. He replaced the alternator and the same damn thing happened.

I had 2 known good batteries of the same size and manufacture and dropped them in his truck and the problem went away.

My Dad's BMW's battery tested good at VatoZone, where he purchased it a year before. It's good they said, buy one of our alternators. Bull Hockey said I. Dad slapped in a different battery and the problem went away.

See if they manager will let you deduct the price of the battery you have from a Die Hard Platinum (manufactured by Odyssey) and buy one. Problem solved.

YES! They get $ out of it (incentive to work with you), you get (for sure) an better and new battery. If you have a drain, you'll find out soon enough, and you'll know it isn't the battery.

 

[NLXTACY]

Randy, pick up a book called "Managing 12 Volts" by Harold Barre. This should be required reading for ANYONE trying to do their own electrical systems.

In short, a starting battery (NOT deep cycle) is not designed to be discharged less then 60% of its full charge. Anytime the charge goes below 60% it will never go to full 100% charge again. And its full charge rate continues to decline every time it gets discharged. So even though it WILL hold a charge at say 80% of its rating, it will get discharged very fast.

Edit: I may be slightly off on my numbers but the logic is there. I would have to break open the book again to get specs.

IF you have a 60A alternator, kk for 3FE lets say 80A at 12V, how long do you think a rack full of driving lights are going to last before the alternator can no longer support the voltage and the battery just gets slowly drained to nothing?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I didn't mention it, but you could use a dual battery system, so at least you can self just start and avoid being stranded. I like the Hellroaring system, but there are many others.

Post up what you find trouble shooting your system. Measure the power drain with the key out and removed. If it's more than a couple of milliamps, something bad is wrong and the source of your problem. If you find a drain, pull 1 fuse at a time until it stops, then you at least know the circuit that it's in. (That's the brute force method and the only one I know)

One last thing, I have travelled in Land Cruisers for years and never needed more than a stock alternator-even in an FJ40 that makes 40 amps. If you do, you also need to re-evaluate how you use power. 2 aux lights should not require more power than the alternator can supply in real time, and thus really should not stress your battery at all. If you run a lot of electric gear with the truck not running, that does require lots of power storage.

 

[NLXTACY]

yeah, ask Randy how many driving lights he's got running. Go ahead ask.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

only 4 right now, 6 total planned plus roof rack lights when setting up camp in hte dark so more like 10.

 

[NLXTACY]

only 4 right now, 6 total planned plus roof rack lights when setting up camp in hte dark so more like 10.

Now count up the total combined wattage of those lights and there in you will see your dilemma. And don't you also have like a 300W stereo too?

And once your girlfriend of the day plugs in her 12v vibrator...

 

[Cruiserdrew]

only 4 right now, 6 total planned plus roof rack lights when setting up camp in hte dark so more like 10.

Figure 8-10 amps each and you have a significant problem. The FJ62 needs something like 15-20 amps just to run it's own systems, excluding lights. Add normal lights, A/C, blower, stereo, and you could easily be using 40 amps before you turn on the big boys. Are you sure you need all those big lights? Maybe some LEDs for setting up camp in the dark?

 

[Dunbar]

No sh1t! If he has a drain it must be fixed. But did you read my post?

I stand by my statement that those battery tests are far from perfect. The 2 cases I cited were CURED by new batteries when the dolts who tested them said the old batteries were good.

My suggestion for dealing with the Sears Manager is sound. See if he can get the Odyssey battery minus the $ for the unit that is damaged goods. Sears gets a sell and he gets a very good battery that can handle the kind of abuse that a starting battery can not.

YES! They get $ out of it (incentive to work with you), you get (for sure) an better and new battery. If you have a drain, you'll find out soon enough, and you'll know it isn't the battery.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I have a multimeter at home. I must admit that my real life skills with electrical applications is rudimentary. How do I measure the load or drain on the systems? I understand that the battery has a certain voltage and that the car has certain loads or resistance in measured in ohms. Using ohms law V=IR I can get amperate if necessary. How do I go about trouble shooting? I know this is a laughable question but I need to learn it the right way in order to figure out if I’m the problem and not the battery. It will also help for trouble shooting in the future, especially when out on the trail away from ih8mud support.

Joey,
I’ll look into the book.

My future plans include an M12,000 winch, dual battery, light bar, inverter, etc. so learning how it all works and wiring it up properly is a concern.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Dunbar,
I am trying to get a free battery since it’s less than one year old. Once I go dual battery I can contemplate which types and quality to go after. As of now the plan is to get a new battery from sears and also start diagnosing any problems so I don’t become the sears village idiot who keeps bringing in dead batteries.

The night I drove into death valley I had my stock high beams on, two Mot approved Toyota fog lights, and two IPF xenon gas lights on top. That’s a total of 6 lights. No radio, no AC, maybe the heater motor was on, not sure. I need to go back and check the wattage of the lights to see if I was in fact taking more than my alternator could produce. My guess is that it’s my fault. But nevertheless Sears gave me a 1 year warranty and that includes me learning about my car and being an uneducated idiot. Remember, I’m 25 and I only have 1 year total experience with working on this cruiser. Before that I knew nothing about cars. If you told me to point out an alternator last year I would have gave you a blank stare. I’ve come far but I need to learn more. Unfortunately I have to deal with Joey’s bs while making all my mistakes and learning.

 

[NLXTACY]

Unfortunately I have to deal with Joey’s bs while making all my mistakes and learning.

Someone has to do it

And don't worry, I got mine in spades when I was learning all of this.

EDIT: It may be BS but who's right there for ya every time?