search for best diesel oil: Amsoil vs Mobil vs Redline vs Shell vs Chevron

Joined
Sep 8, 2003
Messages
540
Website
www.Linkedin.com
UPDATED: 20Nov2003 (UTC -8), 15:11hrs.
Based on requests, I've updated this list with Shell ROTELLA T
Synthetic 5W-40 and Chevron Delo 400 15w40 info.

==============================================
I'm looking for the best diesel oil for a daily driver/weekend warrior.
Amsoil Series 3000 5w30, Mobil Delvac1 5w40 and Redline 15w40
are all synthetic oils at the same price range, & mind share of market.


Here's what I found so far:
1. Standards specifications/approval

Mobil: API CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ
Amsoil: API CI-4, CF, CF-2, CG-4, CH-4, SH, SJ
Redline: API SJ/SH/SG/CD/CE/CG-4/CH-4
Shell: API CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF; SL, SJ, SH
Chevron: CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF, CE, CD, SL,
SJ, SH, SG
* These are most important designations to be aware of.

Mobil: JASO DH-1
Amsoil: ILSAC GF-3, GF-2
Redline: no data
Shell: JASO DH-1
Chevron: JASO DH-1
*ILSAC GF-3/GF-2 is a standard developed by American &
Japanese cooperation, while JASO DH-1 is purely Japanese.
Though both seem relevant to my Toyota engines, I do not
know which is most applicable.

Mobil: ACEA E5/E4/E3; Global DHD-1; Detroit Diesel (4-stroke)
DDC 7SE270; Caterpillar ECF-1; Mack EO-M, EO-M Plus,
EO-N Premium Plus; Cummins CES 20078/77/76/75;
Volvo VDS-3, VDS-2; Cummins CES 20072/71; Renault
RVI RXD
Amsoil: ACEA A-2, A-3, B-2, B-3, E-2, E-3, E-5; Global DHD-1;
Detroit Diesel 7SE270; Mack EO-M, EO-M+; Cummins
CES 20076, 20077; Volvo VDS, VDS-2; Chrysler MS6395J;
Scania LDF; DB 228.2, 228.3, 229.1, 229.3; Allison C-4;
GM 4718, 9986137; Ford WSS M2C-153G, M2C-171C;
VW 502.00, 505.00; EMA LRG-1; MTU Type 2; MAN 271,
M3275
Redline: no data
Shell: Cummins CES 20076/20071; Detroit Diesel 7SE270; Mack
EO-M, EO-M+;
Chevron: ACEAE5, E3; Global DHD-1; Caterpillar ECF-1; Cummins
CES 20078, 20077, 20076, 20072; EMA LRG-1; DDC Types
1 and 2; Mack EO-N Premium Plus 03, EO-N Premium Plus,
EO-M PLUS, EO-M, EO-L PLUS, EO-L; MAN 271, 3275;
Mercedes Benz 228.3, 228.1; MTU Categories 2 and 1; ; Volvo
VDS-3, VDS-2, VDS; Chrysler MS 6395-G; GM 6094-M;
Ford ESE-M2C153-E
*Nice to know things. Amsoil obviously has more approvals for
American- and European-focused, engine-test & vendor perf specs.

2. Oil Properties

Viscosity, ASTM D 445 (cSt @ 40ºC)
Mobil: 102
Amsoil: 66.5 (good)
Redline: 105
Shell: 88.8
Chevron: 116
Viscosity, ASTM D 445 (cSt @ 100ºC)
Mobil: 11.7
Amsoil: 14.8 (good)
Redline: 15 (another 15w40)
Shell: 14.6
Chevron: 15.6 (best 'coz it's 15w40)
* Viscosity is the measure of how thick an oil is. This is the most
important property for an engine. An oil with too low a viscosity
can shear and loose film strength at high temperatures. An oil with
too high a viscosity may not pump to the proper parts at low temp
and the film may tear at high rpm.

Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270
Mobil: 151
Amsoil: 175 (good)
Redline: 155
Shell: 176 (best)
Chevron: 134
* Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of
change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range.
Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a
relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is
one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy.
These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It
is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.

Total Base Number (TBN), mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896
Mobil: 12
Amsoil: 12+ (best)
Redline: no data (Redline just says they have a "high" TBN)
Shell: 10
Chevron: 11.3
* A measure of total alkalinity; used to neutralize acids and other
contaminants in the system; higher number means better cleaning
properties. There is no clear (pun intended) winner here.

Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97
Mobil: -45
Amsoil: -51 (best)
Redline: -45
Shell: -40
Chevron: -39
* This measurement is especially important for oils used in winter,
as it shows the coldest temp the oil will still flow. The lower the
number, the better.

Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92
Mobil: 226
Amsoil: 230 (good)
Redline: 257 (best)
Shell: 246
Chevron: 230 (good)
* Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors
that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The higher the
flash point the better.

Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D 4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr)
Scar diameter, mm
Mobil: 0.646
Amsoil: 0.39 (good)
Redline: no data
Shell: 0.636 (for Shell Rotella 15w40)
Chevron: 0.52
* The Four Ball Wear Test determines the wear protection properties
of a lubricant by measuring the wear scars produced by 4 metal balls
in sliding contact under the test parameters. The smaller the average
wear scar, the better the wear protection provided by the lubricant.
Based on http://www.amsoil.com/products/hdd.html only, no data
from http://www.mobil.com, but was tested by independent lab.

Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874
Mobil: 1.35
Amsoil: 0.5 (good, but I'm waiting validation from Amsoil)
Redline: no data
Shell: 1.3
Chevron: 1.35
* Indication of how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A
high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the
engine. Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life. Look
for oils with a low ash content.


References:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXE2CVLMOMobilDelvac1_5W-40.asp#TypicalPropertyTitle
http://www.amsoil.com/products/hdd.html
http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/mopds.pdf
Automotive Lubricants Reference Book: Caines, Haycock (ISBN 1-56091-525-0)
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~lists/archive/vfr/199707/msg02380.html
http://www.shell-lubricants.com/products/pdf/ROTELLA%20T%20SYNTHETIC.PDF
https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS7668667.PDF
 

HZJ60 Guy

Tank Buster
Joined
Sep 11, 2003
Messages
2,358
Location
Seattle area
Visit site
search for best diesel oil: Amsoil vs Mobil vs Redline

NO NO NO.

Amsoil HEAVY DUTY DIESEL oil, OR

Mobil DELVAC ONE!

I have three diesel vehicles and I use Amsoil in my NEWER rigs, and Mobil Delvac One in my older rig.

Choose between one of those for your rig. THEN, choose ONE of these:

http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/by-pass.shtml
http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/
http://members.shaw.ca/amsoildealer/bf.htm
http://www.bypassfilter.com/

Either of those two oils will do you way fine. The issue ISNT the oil. This issue is the FILTRATION.

Your average engine oil filter works to around 20-30 microns. A good bypass filter works to LESS THAN ONE micron. If you use a good fitler, a bypass filter AND one of those two oils you can stretch your oil changes to 20,000 miles. I know, I do it AND send in oil for lab analysis to make sure Im still good.

TB
 

Texican

s-Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
6,059
Location
Bonham Tx.
Visit site
search for best diesel oil: Amsoil vs Mobil vs Redline

I service a bunch of diesels at the shop, and by far the 2 most popular oils are Delo 15w40 and Rotella 15w40
I use Delo in my both our Cummins 200k + on one.
Butch
 

HZJ60 Guy

Tank Buster
Joined
Sep 11, 2003
Messages
2,358
Location
Seattle area
Visit site
I would NEVER use a dyno oil in my engines. There isnt any reason NOT too when you factor in going longer distances with proper filtration. I stop at 20,000, but I know guys that have goine 30-40-50,000 miles. They do oil analysis every 5000 miles and have gotten the go from the lab to keep going.

I replace my standard oil filter every 3000, and my bypass every 10,000. Change every thing (oil included) at 20,000.


TB
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2003
Messages
540
Website
www.Linkedin.com
20Nov2003 (UTC -8)

Thanks for the affirmation HJ60Guy!

FYI to all, I just updated the Redline oil specs (which I think is the least impressive, and certainly the most expensive(?)).
 

HZJ60 Guy

Tank Buster
Joined
Sep 11, 2003
Messages
2,358
Location
Seattle area
Visit site
I appreciate all the good info youve posted.

You can never have TO MUCH technical info.

As long as you're using a TRUE synthetic oil, use a bypass filter of some type, and change out your standard oil filter every 3000 miles or so (before it plugs and goes into bypass) your engine will love you and last forever! Or close.

Oh and here's another. If you use 20% or so of BIO DIESEL the lubrication it offers will make your injection pump and other wear issue areas last FOREVER TOO!

http://www.biodiesel.org/

TB
 

fj40charles

SILVER Star
Joined
Dec 7, 2002
Messages
3,089
Location
Texas
Visit site
I'd recommend Delo 400 or Rotella and change the oil/filter every 5K miles.

There have been many documented Cummins motors going over 1,000,000 miles (not km's) on plain ole dino oil. Unless you live in the frozen tundra, tow heavy (20,000+ lbs), and or drag race.. You don't need
synthetics. I use Amsoil synthetic gear oil in the diffs and use Mobil 1 ATF in the transfer case.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Messages
482
Location
Wasilla, AK
Visit site
[quote author=HJ60 Guy link=board=12;threadid=7803;start=msg65833#msg65833 date=1069370161]
I would NEVER use a dyno oil in my engines. There isnt any reason NOT too when you factor in going longer distances with proper filtration. I stop at 20,000, but I know guys that have goine 30-40-50,000 miles. They do oil analysis every 5000 miles and have gotten the go from the lab to keep going.

I replace my standard oil filter every 3000, and my bypass every 10,000. Change every thing (oil included) at 20,000.


TB
[/quote]

How much do your oil changes cost? To me, if you change the oil every 3-5K, synthetic oil isn't cost effective enough. Any good dyno oil will do.
 

HZJ60 Guy

Tank Buster
Joined
Sep 11, 2003
Messages
2,358
Location
Seattle area
Visit site
Well, Im paying 8.00 dollars a quart. But Im only changing the oil every 20,000 miles. The filters are 5.00 each, and the bypass filters are 15.00 each.

That is the point, if you go longer between changes your paying less. That and you're getting better protection.



TB
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Messages
482
Location
Wasilla, AK
Visit site
[quote author=HJ60 Guy link=board=12;threadid=7803;start=msg66231#msg66231 date=1069442408]
Well, Im paying 8.00 dollars a quart. But Im only changing the oil every 20,000 miles. The filters are 5.00 each, and the bypass filters are 15.00 each.

That is the point, if you go longer between changes your paying less. That and you're getting better protection.



TB
[/quote]

You still pay more than me. Example

You:
10K miles driven a year
Oil change every other year
Cost of oil $56 (7 quarts)

Me:
10K miles driven a year
Oil Change twice a year
Cost of oil $21 at $1.50 a quart (7 quarts)

It cost you $56 every 2 years and me $42 every 2 years. Of course I only figured in the cost of oil, not filters etc.

I believe I'll have the same protection as you, just more work on my part because of the twice a year oil changes.

BTW, these numbers are hypothetical. :)

Clear as mud?!?

:cheers:
 

HZJ60 Guy

Tank Buster
Joined
Sep 11, 2003
Messages
2,358
Location
Seattle area
Visit site
Me: 20K miles driven a year
Oil change once per year
Cost of oil 48$ (6 quarts)

You:
20K miles driven a year
Oil Change FOUR times a year
Cost of oil 36$ at $1.50 a quart (6 quarts)

Now factor in four filters for you too.

If you seriously think that you are getting the SAME protection factor with DINO oil that costs 1.50 per quart as I am getting with synthetic that costs 8.00 per quart then I dont know where to go with this because you arent!

You cant be. Believing that you are says that the technology that exists in making Mobil one and Amsoil is B/S!

I dont believe (neither do the statistics) that it is.

Now if you dont plan on keeping your car/truck, or dont care about it then big deal. I do, and I do.

Tom B
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2003
Messages
482
Location
Wasilla, AK
Visit site
[quote author=HJ60 Guy link=board=12;threadid=7803;start=msg66244#msg66244 date=1069444729]
Me: 20K miles driven a year
Oil change once per year
Cost of oil 48$ (6 quarts)

You:
20K miles driven a year
Oil Change FOUR times a year
Cost of oil 36$ at $1.50 a quart (6 quarts)

Now factor in four filters for you too.

If you seriously think that you are getting the SAME protection factor with DINO oil that costs 1.50 per quart as I am getting with synthetic that costs 8.00 per quart then I dont know where to go with this because you arent!

You cant be. Believing that you are says that the technology that exists in making Mobil one and Amsoil is B/S!

I dont believe (neither do the statistics) that it is.

Now if you dont plan on keeping your car/truck, or dont care about it then big deal. I do, and I do.

Tom B

[/quote]

All the research I've done shows that synthetics do indeed exceed dyno oil in long drain intervals. But to me, 20K is loooong time between oil changes. Maybe I'm a little paranoid. I plan on changing my oil every 3-5K anyway. So until synthetics price is that of dyno, I'll stick with dyno and change the oil a quarter of the time you do. :)
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Messages
135
Website
Visit site
this is actually a very interesting thread -- i've never really read much about bypass filtering. I'm just now getting my engine rebuilt (200K miles) and i'm interested in using synthetics and a bypass now. question - where do you send the oil to have it examined and how expensive is this. Also on a rebuild (gas) it seems like i'd need to either replace the filter or the oil pretty soon for the first couple changes even with this system.

any of you other landcruiser owners using this bypass system?

one last question. Do you need to use synthetic when using a bypass system?
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2003
Messages
540
Website
www.Linkedin.com
21Nov2003 (UTC -8)

[quote author=fj40charles link=board=1;threadid=7803;start=msg65943#msg65943 date=1069382142]
...
There have been many documented Cummins motors going over 1,000,000 miles (not km's) on plain ole dino oil. Unless you live in the frozen tundra, tow heavy (20,000+ lbs), and or drag race.. You don't need synthetics. I use Amsoil synthetic gear oil in the diffs and use Mobil 1 ATF in the transfer case.
[/quote]

And how many miles do those Cummins motors ran per week, on good highways and without deviation from routine and at what load, that led to the achievement of a million miles? What I'm saying is that those engines most probably had everything going good for them, so that's why 1,000,000mi wasn't impossible with cheap oils.

For my 'Cruiser engine however, it doesn't have that luxury. It has to deal with stop-and-go city traffic, short trips, off-road environments with high loads and lots of idling and dirty air and contamination from mud/sand, bad weather conditions, etc. For that, I'm very much attracted to the synth oils 'coz of it's excellent protection properties, like some form of insurance. Additionally, if I compare the value I place on my 'Cruiser vs. the value of each oil change, then I can easily justify to myself the cost of the synth oils.

The alphabet soup of standards that I quoted above actually reflect specific test scenarios that engine/car makers and the public+militaries have specified to be followed. If an oil maker says their lubricant meets those specs, or are approved/recommended for those specs, then I'm assured that I know that the oil I choose will perform exactly as I expect it to, and not fail.
 

nuclearlemon

not an addict
Moderator
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Messages
16,447
Location
windy wyoming
Website
www1.snapfish.com
rotella t has a great reputation among the class 8 trucks for running 1,000,000miles + and i know a bunch with diesel pickups that run it. a bit more expensive than delo and close to the same price range as delvac. as for oil analysis, caterpillar does oil analysis...part number for the kit is sos-reg or sos 101 at most truck dealerships. you just send the little cup in with some oil and they send the analysis back to ya. fleetguard used to offer the service, but we've had problems with them lately...they still sell the kits, but don't seem to do the test anymore.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2003
Messages
540
Website
www.Linkedin.com
03Dec2003 (UTC -8)

It turns out the the Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D 874) for Amsoil is 1.5, making it the highest (worst) of all for that property.
 

mwd

Joined
Nov 17, 2003
Messages
17
Visit site
My 1981 FJ60 has 260,000 miles. I converted to Amsoil 10W40 synthetic with bypass filter at 125,000 miles. I can still see hone marks in the cylinders using a small flashlight and looking in the spark plug hole. I change oil when the yearly analysis says it is needed. Longest drain interval was 3 years and 30,000 miles. I extract an oil sample yearly and change both filters every year and change oil whenever the lab says it is needed.

Changing oil/filter every 3000 miles works good too, but I have seen oil analysis from vehicles doing it this way and then converted them to synthetic and the wear metals in the oil would be less than half on the synthetic even at 6000 miles after an oil change with synthetic. This INDICATES that the wear rate is reduced with synthetic. Filtration is probably just as important and probably more important than what oil is used IMHO. Synthetic allows longer drain intervals.

Oil analysis that I have seen on inexpensive oil indicates that oil changes ARE needed at 3-5000 miles due to oxidation/nitration. The oil starts to get "thick".

I agree that Amsoil and Mobil are EXCELLENT choices for synthetic oil. Delvac synthetic is good stuff. I have also seen excellent results with Schaeffer semi-synthetic, great oil and very reasonably priced but hard to find.
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2002
Messages
19
Website
www.reorx.net
Hmm, I just regular old Rotella/T in my Powerjoke along with motorcraft filters and use the factory change interval... Seems to work fine (has 170k on the odo). We'll see how long it goes.
;)
 
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
1,264
Location
Diamond Valley, Nevada
Visit site
We have run Delo in our Powerstrokes since day one, 250K pulling a stock trailer no problems, '04 Peterbilt w/ Cat C15 factory fill is Delo 15w40. In my opinion Delo is the way to go, sometimes it's hard to find if you don't live on the West coast.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom