Scout Steering VS standard Saginaw steering pros/cons

[MyCruiserisaHogBeast]

Hey Guys,

I'm sick of replacing centerlink assemblies and not being able to make sharp left turns, time to move on to better power steering. I've been putting off doing a Saginaw conversion for years because I don't like the whole deal of cutting into the frame, I also know about all of the horror stories of the box sheering off of the frame and all that.... I was about to bite the bullet and go with the whole 4x4 labs brace kit when a buddy of mine mentioned he had a Scout box sitting around. I thought about a Scout box conversion a while ago when I almost did this last time I went through a centerlink, but just went the lazy route and replaced it again. Now that the centerlink is smoked and the mini truck box is leaking it's time. I like that the Scout box isn't up there interfering with my winch and to me it seems like a little better situation. I wanted to go with an FJ60 conversion but parts availability is definitely a hiderance.

There's plenty of write ups on both set ups, but less info about the Scout conversions after they're installed. Anyone running this set up and had problems with it? Anyone NOT recommend this set up? Anyone have any fantastic stories to go along with their recommendations? Any magic bullet set ups out here?

My rig has roughly 4.5" lift, sprung under, 35's, someday maybe 37's, F250 shock mounts with 12 travel IVD 2.0 smoothies, it's pretty flexy. I've actually beat the crap out of my mini truck power steering and it hasn't failed on the trail, it just sort of sucks.

Thanks!!!!!!!

 

[Richard R]

I put s Scout box in my 7 1 and have had no problems. I mounted it on the outside of the frame,reinforcing the inside of the frame and used tubes inside the frame as recommend in some of the old right ups.
I was forced to grind some off the box to clear the fender brace but not much.
I used a jeep steering arm was recommended but heated it to a dull red to bend it down some.
A small amount of welding on the tubes but not a hard job.

Good luck.

Dick.

 

[pb4ugo]

On my trail 40, the PO installed a sag box out front & butchered the crossmember. I ran it for a while, until I had to install a new front crossmember, repair the frame & adapted a scout box. That's been about 10yrs ago w/no problems. I like it. I'm currently installing one on my other 40. It looks like a stk yj pitman arm may work, but it will be a while until it gets on the road. I had to do the starter bushing trick on the pitman. The yj arm is a drop pitman.

 

[MyCruiserisaHogBeast]

I put s Scout box in my 7 1 and have had no problems. I mounted it on the outside of the frame,reinforcing the inside of the frame and used tubes inside the frame as recommend in some of the old right ups.
I was forced to grind some off the box to clear the fender brace but not much.
I used a jeep steering arm was recommended but heated it to a dull red to bend it down some.
A small amount of welding on the tubes but not a hard job.

Good luck.

Dick.

I saw an old post with some pretty good written instructions and a parts list (http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/woody/scoutps.html), are the tubes you are referring to sleeving the mounting holes?

On my trail 40, the PO installed a sag box out front & butchered the crossmember. I ran it for a while, until I had to install a new front crossmember, repair the frame & adapted a scout box. That's been about 10yrs ago w/no problems. I like it. I'm currently installing one on my other 40. It looks like a stk yj pitman arm may work, but it will be a while until it gets on the road. I had to do the starter bushing trick on the pitman. The yj arm is a drop pitman.

How is the feel of the Scout system vs the standard Saginaw? I have driven several Saginaw equipped FJ40's and I was never a huge fan of the over powered steering, although I'm sure on the trail where it counts it's a whole different thing. The one thing I appreciated about my mini truck steering (when everything was new and tight) was that there was still some feedback. I have kept my vintage steering wheel, (actually I bought one for way to much money and replaced that silly little Momo thing that the PO had in there, I love it I don't know why guys get rid of them) and with that huge bus wheel I could still turn those 35s even when they're jammed up into the fenders.

 

[Mace]

The scout box is a Saginaw box. Road feel is essentially the same. Only major difference is the length of the sector shaft.


I ran one for years with 40" tires. Worked great.

 

[Howard705]

I have two-work well-Scouts getting rare here now though. Hit a stump going slow once-put a slight twist in sector shaft. Not overpowered to me with Bogger 35s or M/T35s. May be the old stock pumps or never-rebuilt boxes.

 

[Downey]

It's true that the Scout box is Saginaw and should perform as well as any other Saginaw box, but my understanding (at least the two I've seen) is that you have to trim out a bunch of sheet metal to clear the Scout box. As far as butchering the front crossmember to use a regular 800 series box, you don't have to do that, in fact you can put more strength back into the frame than you remove, see ebay #260835342312. Many on Mud prefer the 4 1/2 turn Saginaw box, but the 3 1/2 turn boxes actually have better ratios.

 

[MyCruiserisaHogBeast]

Well, yeah its a Saginaw box. I drove a Scout on 37's and thought it felt good. I've known a couple of Scout guys running some huge tires with the stock box and getting along just fine I'm going to move forward with this, thanks to everyone who chimed in! Any tips or pictures with real world set ups are still welcome! I'm going to start on this next week more than likely. It's to put this info in one place for future 'Mudders. Thanks![/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Mace]

Only metal that had to be trimmed it's inner fender sheet metal. Very easy to do.

Beefing up the cross member is also not a huge deal tho.

 

[pb4ugo]

As Pin said, powerwise they are about the same. I think the scout box drives better. The drag link and the tierod are closer to parallel, with the box out front that angle is greater. Most of the kits for the box out front, that I've seen, requires welding the crossmember to the frame rail at some point, which I'm not a fan of. I've found there's a lot of frame movement in that area & believe alot of that is by design.

 

[inkpot]

We have installed 60 series PS setups on a bunch of 40 recently. Works good, looks great, all OEM parts, just not not this model. More than enough power to handle 35s on the trail. John

 

[65swb45]

The nicest part about the Scout route, like the 60, is being able to move the box along the frame to where the end of the pitman arm puts the relay rod at an optimum angle to the main steering rod. The standard 800 series install keeps the upper relay quite a bit forward of the main steering rod, leading to more bump steer.

I stock both the standard 800 series and the longer relay rods for the Scout conversions. You can call me at the shop to follow up. No PMs please.

 

[FF LC FREAK]

The other nice thing about Scout boxes is that a rebuilt one can be had at most parts stores for under $200. Toyota steering boxes are at least 2-3 times the money and typically are not in stock.

 

[Flight2k5]

The other nice thing about Scout boxes is that a rebuilt one can be had at most parts stores for under $200. Toyota steering boxes are at least 2-3 times the money and typically are not in stock.

My local Napa has stock box for 300 bucks and it's in stock.

 

[bikersmurf]

Local mudder has a scout box in his 40... Two fingers to turn 37s.

Mine is on the shelf waiting to go in. It'll be overkill for 33s but I only want to do it once.

 

[roma042987]

if you already have ford shock towers I don't understand why you don't go with a 60 box. they are not that hard to find. there are several in the classifieds right now and can be had for 100-150 bucks

 

[MyCruiserisaHogBeast]

if you already have ford shock towers I don't understand why you don't go with a 60 box. they are not that hard to find. there are several in the classifieds right now and can be had for 100-150 bucks

Well, Scout box is free and as tight as an uncomfortable homophobe during a night out on Santa Monica Blvd, besides that as much as I want to keep it all Toyota and have thus far to a large extent parts are becoming harder to come by, and since this is a wear item I'd rather it to be more commonly sourced parts. This makes it easy, I'll be able to grab junker parts from a K10 for the steering shaft and it'll all go in very easily.

 

[bikersmurf]

A Scout box seemed like a no brainer with a SBC... Saginaw pump is a direct bolt on. Not to mention I was able to find all the parts locally.