Scout Box and Hoop Shock Tower

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Jun 26, 2006
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Longview, Texas
Here is what I have come up with so far. My scout box will not clear the 26" rad so it has to mount farther back, and my orginal idea of the ford shock tower was no good becasue of the size of the scout box. Looks like the hoop tower will be the solution.

Now I have a big decision to make now that will determine how driver side fender fits later on. If I use a 3/4" scab plate it will interfere wiht both the fender and the hoop tower. My question is the following.

Becasue of the 2" holes on the inside of the frame rail, I can get a big washer and nuts on all three bolts (I know I can on the front two and I think I can on the back mounting hole.)

If I don't go through the frame but only go through the out side and snug up tight with large washers, will this bend the frame due to the power of the steering box??

I would like to avoid sleeving, but now is the time. If I do sleeve, then I will also have to run scab plate down the inside frame rail, because the front two mounting holes line right up with on those 2" frame holes.

It seems to be that the stress would not be as great if you are not going through both sides of the frame...just can't see how the frame could possible twist, just going through one side with lock nuts on back.

Please let me know your thoughts...Thanks..

jerry
P1010052.jpg
 
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Drill three holes to match up to the scout box on the outside of the frame. Weld 3 pieces of tube with an ID that mtches the bolt size to the inside of the outside of the frame rail over the three drilled holes. Gusset each of the tubes horizontally on each side of the tube with some plate. Make a piece of plate with 3 holes that match up to the OD of the tubes. Place that over the three tubes and weld away to the tubes and the inside frame rail.
 
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Pighead

Stop calling it an FJ
 
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I'm thinking you need to sleeve that. And scab plates inside and out, and maybe even a diagonal brace...
Maybe you can't possibly see how a frame rail would twist, but I can. Heck, I can see that box pulling the frame apart.
If now is the best time to sleeve it, do it now.
Overbuild, not underbuild. That is the way of the LandCruiser.
 

Lil'John

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On my FJ55, the fab shop scabbed the frame on both sides, sleeved it, AND put a brace on the inside. The claim was even plated the frame would twist.:eek:

Here is a picture of the outside:


Here is a picture of the inside with brace:
 
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So are the scout boxes just that much stronger than any of the other boxes used for these upgrades.

So my guess is that it did not twist...I really like the additional brace. Had not thought of that.
 
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The Scout boxes do put out more force. It would move the whole front end of the frame around when it was against a rock or when turned lock to lock. Looking at the pictures put up by Lil' John, I will probably brace the front cross member like he had done to stop that.

I looked at the 60 install guides. There is one thing I noticed that I didn't do on my last 40 that I am going to incorporate into my latest one. Rather than move the radiator over a bit to the passengers side, they put a thick scab plate on the outside of the frame rail and that shifted it out enough to not need to move the radiator.
 

Poser

Oh...Durka Durka Durka.
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So are the scout boxes just that much stronger than any of the other boxes used for these upgrades.

So my guess is that it did not twist...I really like the additional brace. Had not thought of that.



No not really, it is how any of the aftermarket steering gears are mounted; Chevy Astro, Saginaw, 60 series, Scout Saginaw, etc. coupled to the fact that they are typically trying to manipulate and control significantly larger tires than stock. (Remember, a 28" tall tire was stock for many years)



Any steering gear is under a tremendous amount of stress. If there is movement in the steering gear, ANY movement in the steering gear when trying to steer, it is only going to create stress fractures in the frame, and cause the gear to become loose at its mounting point and fail. The reason people are telling you to at a minimum, to sleeve the frame is because it is a FACT that a poorly thought out and secured steering gear will inevitably fail and create steering drama when you least likely expect it.




I have been involved in many steering gear mount trail repairs over the years because people are convinced that they can do something themselves to save money, and typically do not have the foggiest idea about how to properly secure wires in a harness to prevent them from getting damaged, let alone how to properly secure an aftermarket steering gear to the frame.



Not installing sleeves in the frame when mounting a steering gear is only asking for problems, period. The frame will crush, the mounting bolts will become loose, allowing the gear to rip out from the frame.


The sleeves, scab plates and brace pictured above it a perfect example of how to properly reinforce your steering gear frame mounting area, properly secure your steering gear to the frame and not have to worry about it becoming loose.



I know it is not Scout or 60 series, but I have a separate brace that attaches to the lower section of my Saginaw steering gear and then ties into the passenger side frame to help prevent the steering gear from levering itself off the frame. :meh:





:beer:
 

Lil'John

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Poser pretty much nailed it.

But to add a little info/opnion/insight to the issue.

If you look at where the pitman arm is relative to the frame, you will see why it will twist the frame. It is usually at least an inch or more below the frame. Thus, a brace like what I have or he has would be a good idea.

The frame sleeving is there to ensure the frame isn't crushed during tightening nor warped during extreme steering. If it is crushed or warped, the bolts holding the box to the frame will loosen up.

The frame plating is there to strengthen the frame to prevent the bolts from ripping through and usually to provide a surface to bolt to.

The plating is almost a given due to holes on the inside of the frame. I find that plating the outside and sleeving the frame add minimal amount of work but add a lot to peace of mind. Maybe $10 in material and another hour in cutting/welding:cool:

The brace portion to me is highly dependent upon the rest of your system such as tire size and hydro assist.

The brace in mine was done when I was going to run just the box and 31s. A month later, the plan changed so I have 35s and hydro assist:rolleyes:
 
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Pighead

Stop calling it an FJ
 
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Funny, mine looks very similar...but dirtier...wonder why...?





On my FJ55, the fab shop scabbed the frame on both sides, sleeved it, AND put a brace on the inside. The claim was even plated the frame would twist.:eek:
scoutbox2.jpg
 
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In the Rat Hole
I looked at the 60 install guides. There is one thing I noticed that I didn't do on my last 40 that I am going to incorporate into my latest one. Rather than move the radiator over a bit to the passengers side, they put a thick scab plate on the outside of the frame rail and that shifted it out enough to not need to move the radiator.
The plate is drilled and tapped for mounting purposes, never read anything about needing one for clearance issues. Got a link?
 
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Apr 23, 2007
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I have been involved in many steering gear mount trail repairs over the years because people are convinced that they can do something themselves to save money, and typically do not have the foggiest idea about how to properly secure wires in a harness to prevent them from getting damaged, let alone how to properly secure an aftermarket steering gear to the frame.



Not installing sleeves in the frame when mounting a steering gear is only asking for problems, period. The frame will crush, the mounting bolts will become loose, allowing the gear to rip out from the frame.



:beer:
How do you feel about:
Plating the outside of the frame with 3/8" steel that extends up toward the front of the FJ40 frame until it intersects with the front cross member.
Drilling and tapping 7/16" bolt holes with with a fine thread tap throught the plate and frame.
Thread the bolts through the 3/8" plate, outer frame wall and install a large washer and steel locking nut on the inside of the frame?
This application would not require the use of "sleeves" for the frame.

Just wondering.
 
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