Safety -- 255/70R18 113T M+S (1 Viewer)

[Golden13LX570]

Hello Mud!

This thread is for "Safety" discussion on using 255/70R18 113T wheel/tire combination on a 2013 LX570.

I've read the (great & informative) historical threads on skinny tires like 255's discussing...
+ "Pros/Cons of handling characteristics" (on/off road, wet/dry, snow, mud, etc.)
+ "Contact Pressure vs. Contact Patch"
+ "personal preference"
+ "availability"
these threads remain currently valid still (IMHO) and doesn't need to be elaborated on again here.

I've heard outside of U.S. Market, LC200 variants came OEM with 255's for LC200's.

I've also experienced a major/corporate tire retailer refusing to mount the below tires on my LX570.
(predominant concern seemed to be conservative "Liability policy/exposure")
-----> EDIT - added below 3 lines of remembered details to be fair to retail chain <---
Shop also indicated narrow tread might have an "concerning" angle of between rim & tread... sidewalls leaning inward /_\.
I double checked manufacturer spec... Rim Width Range: 6.5-8.5", so my planned 18x8 wheels should be fine.
Also, shop said "would not touch tires" going from OEM 20" to 18" due to reduced safety when "cornering at speed".

A locally-owned tire shop is OK with mounting them, and did discuss differences of handling I will see on 255's.

My particular planned usage is :
90% on road (daily driver + long-range highway travel)
10% unpaved roads and light off-roading. No Towing.
on Stock Drive Train & Stock AHC.

Ignoring the "why" of my interest in using 255's...

Are there definitive "Safety" factors when using 255's, as long as 2013 LX570 GVWR:3345KG (7385LB) limit is observed?


=== TIRES SPECS ===
Bridgestone Dueler A/T RH-S
255/70R18 113T M+S
MAX LOAD 1150kg ( 2535 lb))
at 350 kPa (51 psi) MAX PRESS

=== WHEELS SPECS ===
18x8 JJ 60 --> OEM from a Lexus LX470 2005

 

[grinchy]

<Edit just ignore this>

I think it’s the 113 load, that’s below the stock load (which is 114?<edit - stock load is 112 on a p rated 285/50r20 for my LX>). So at no pressure could these P tires meet the needs of the door label. Corporate will indeed avid this situation.

I’m a fan of skinnies, there is an excellent 33x10.5r18 Kenda RT that has the needed load. It’s pretty quiet on the highway, but not highway tire quiet. Just a a tiny bit more than an AT.

601033

33*10.50R18LT

E

121

R

32.64

11.02

3195

80

19

8.5

7.0

9.0

RBL

$455.50

There is also the new Baja Boss AT, but I’m not sure they have a 18” skinny. They have a 255/85r17 though.

 

[AnyMal]

If its 51 MAX PSI its an XL, and something here is amiss.

 

[AnyMal]

 

[TeCKis300]

Are there definitive "Safety" factors when using 255's, as long as 2013 LX570 GVWR:3345KG (7385LB) limit is observed?

It comes down to this: weight and speed.

You're fitting tires meant for a low content V6 manual LC200 weighing about 5,300lbs that operates in a country with low speeds.

255 tires inherently are going to handicap the maximum amount of tractive force that can be yielded in typical conditions. Force that's necessary to act on a large mass for acceleration, cornering, or braking. Creating a compromised handing car for pretty much every dynamic situation, but especially so at speed.

Skinny advocates get caught up in corner cases where it may have more traction, but the reality is that it yields less tractive force on the majority of surfaces. Definitely so on-road where the ability to better corner or brake equals more safety.

So yes, there are safety issues using this size tire on a vehicle that has a base curb weight 1k lbs heavier operating at US freeway speeds. Floatation also matters off-road where skinny tired car will dig in more readily sinking in loose surfaces. Stucks are probably not a great trade to have incrementally better traction on the rare surface where skinnies might have an advantage.

If you're set on 255s, if it helps, load rating is for the max speed of a tire, on the hottest summer day, with full load. For a T rated tire (118mph), if you never intend to approach that speed, that may leave some margin for more weight.

 

[Golden13LX570]

If its 51 MAX PSI its an XL, and something here is amiss.

Follow-up on "51 MAX PSI"... included pictures of tire sidewall... which is different than "tirerack.com" spec AnyMal posted... yeah.. curious

 

[urinalcake]

For what it's worth, I run 255/70R18 Bridgestone Blizzak DMV2 winter tires mounted on some old Tundra wheels on my truck. Tire Rack had zero hesitation mounting them, and I have learned they are quite conservative on what they will / won't mount.

 

[Golden13LX570]

I think it’s the 113 load, that’s below the stock load (which is 114?). So at no pressure could these P tires meet the needs of the door label. Corporate will indeed avid this situation.

I’m a fan of skinnies, there is an excellent 33x10.5r18 Kenda RT that has the needed load. It’s pretty quiet on the highway, but not highway tire quiet. Just a a tiny bit more than an AT.

601033

33*10.50R18LT

E

121

R

32.64

11.02

3195

80

19

8.5

7.0

9.0

RBL

$455.50

There is also the new Baja Boss AT, but I’m not sure they have a 18” skinny. They have a 255/85r17 though.

Follow-Up to "grinchy"... " I think it’s the 113 load, that’s below the stock load (which is 114?) "

on consumerreports.org (I found but cannot speak to their accuracy of data)
OEM 2013 LC : Dunlop Grandtrek AT23 size 285/60R18 114V <-- This is for LC, No Data for OEM tires LX570 on their site

THEN...
further digging in the MUD Archives yielded the same discussion10 years ago about Safety and LX570 speed & load ratings.
see.. 2013 Land Cruiser on 20" Platinum Wheels - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/2013-land-cruiser-on-20-platinum-wheels.707564/page-2
entries #37 & #40

Paraphrase --> Lexus Owners site for a 2013 LX 570... OEM spec is "P285/50R20 111V".

I could not confirm the references as links to references are old, or I could not find the referenced information.
Appeared to me a reliable discussion between knowledgeable MUD members though.

 

[TimCFJ40]

That specific tire (make, model, size) is an OEM tire for a few trims of Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators. It's a very old tread pattern, similar to Dueler ATs from 20 years ago, and likely optimized around cost and initial ride impressions not for longevity or performance in any sort of adverse conditions. Most OEM tires are this way. I would avoid them on that basis alone. You probably could run them safely, but I doubt they will be an upgrade. If you want a tall narrower tire that has been used by many on these trucks, I'd advise the 275/70R18 tire size as a good fit.

 

[AnyMal]

Follow-up on "51 MAX PSI"... included pictures of tire sidewall... which is different than "tirerack.com" spec AnyMal posted... yeah.. curious

View attachment 3285163

View attachment 3285164

View attachment 3285165

Interesting! I think @TimCFJ40 found the issue here.

My LX I believe came on 113XL low pros (21” ultra luxury trim). Buallin!!! Lol. But in all seriousness I think you are okay in the load regard outside of what mystery this tire is about. Could it be XL reinforced? Not sure… unfortunately i don't think you can return these at this point since they are mounted?

My only advice if budget is of concern is add pressure when you run, don’t assume 33 still applies. Even if 113-113 load rating is roughly “equivalent”. And monitor temps from there until you are sure its not heating up substantially.

 

[grinchy]

Sorry, I should have checked my facts instead of guessing. A quick trip to my tire graveyard shows that the 285/50r20 for the 2009 LX is load 112. It's a P style tire.

Agree with above re: PSI guidance, you'll want to watch your tpms psi and make sure it isn't going up more than 10%-15% from cold reading to hot reading.

I did edit the original post with hopes of not misinforming future readers

 

[Golden13LX570]

That specific tire (make, model, size) is an OEM tire for a few trims of Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators. It's a very old tread pattern, similar to Dueler ATs from 20 years ago, and likely optimized around cost and initial ride impressions not for longevity or performance in any sort of adverse conditions. Most OEM tires are this way. I would avoid them on that basis alone. You probably could run them safely, but I doubt they will be an upgrade. If you want a tall narrower tire that has been used by many on these trucks, I'd advise the 275/70R18 tire size as a good fit.

Hats off TimCFJ40... very intuitive and accurate assessment!
I agree with entire thoughts.
The tires I acquired are from a recent Take-Offs from a 2023 Ford Bronco - <50 miles from dealer lot.
I'm using them for a "low-budget" experimental setup.

 

[Golden13LX570]

Just a quick explain about my thread

I am doing a "budget" experiment with my LX570.
But I have only (1) LX570 and (1) slightly defective corporeal body to experiment with.
So, given I know a lot less than most... I wanted feedback/discussion on safety of 255's.

THANKS... to all that have contributed so far, keep it coming... It's been very helpful

Here's the short description...
I'm doing a "low-budget" experiment with narrower tires for now, before I make any big-$ changes.
I acquired (4) tires and (4) 18" Lexus wheels for a very low buy-in price for my experiment.
I've read and viewed many tire discussions and videos... but want to "test" the results of skinner sized tires for myself with the way I use my LX.
Even if I can predict results based on abundant information on MUD and elsewhere.

I have 7K miles on tires that came on my LX570 when I purchased a few months ago...
275/55R20 113T M+S BridgeStone Dueler LTH.

I'll run this prototype setup for about same mileage...
255/70R18 113T M+S Bridgestone Dueler A/T RH-S

Note that... Diameter of both tires are almost same 32", so only Width and Sidewall is main difference.

So after experiment, I may have indication of what I want for a long-term setup, or continue test maybe with larger tires.
Tinkering I guess it is one of the ways I'm enjoying my new-to-me 2013 LX570.

 

[40Man]

You want a decent cushion between max tire load and gross vehicle weight. Before I had armor, I ran this size in XLs on studded winters for years. But I also never ran close to a max load. Usually me and a friend to ski. I would not recommend this size in a non-XL.

Based on some LXs running similar load rated tires, it seemed to be "Toyota safe". They also seemed too small in the wheel well so I now run Hakkas in 275/65r18. I definitely prefer this size.