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Running rough

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by firetruck41, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. firetruck41

    firetruck41

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    ***EDIT***
    I found my Haynes manual which shows to jumper "TE1 and E1", which gives me 2 flashes, pause, 2 flashes, long pause, repeat. The Haynes only lists the OBD2 codes for the 1FZ, ie. POxxxx, so I don't know what my code means, but suspect that it is the "everythings normal" code as it flashes the same after resetting with the EFI relay.
    ***EDIT***


    Had the Cruiser for one year with no driveability problems, last night I drove 1.5 miles to the bank (from home) and all of a sudden while driving at 25mph (no hot doggin') it started running rough. It is like it is "missing", very similar to what my BMW felt like wheen a spark plug lost its electrode tip. No check engine light came on. I immediately drove home and it ran rough the whole way, with significant loss of power. This AM I got some new NGK plugs (start with the easy stuff first)and put them in, old plugs looked OK. No change. I checked the big air intake hose for cracks/deterioration and found none. I ordered new plug wires from Cdan, will try that. I don't really smell gas coming from the exhaust. Had new plugs, rotor,cap, PCV valve, air filter (which still looks good) last April, approx 14k miles ago.

    Two questions:
    1. Any clues or suggestions on problem/fix
    2. How can I check the engine codes, I did a search and found "jumper T1 and TE1" however I don't have "T1" maybe they meant "Tt" ?
    3. Okay 3 questions, sorry. Is it likely that I will have any codes if the Check Engine light has never come on? (it does turn on with the other indicators when I start it so the bulb is good)
     
  2. PHAEDRUS

    PHAEDRUS

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    Ben,
    first where the heck is camas?
    and second how is the egr system?
    just my two cents.
    Dave
     
  3. fzj

    fzj

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    unhook your egr and see if it smooths out, I had that problem with mine, suddenly started running really rough, once I unhooked the egr, it ran perfect!
     
  4. firetruck41

    firetruck41

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    [quote author=Phaedrus link=board=2;threadid=11787;start=msg107435#msg107435 date=1077225784]
    Ben,
    first where the heck is camas?[/quote]
    Camas sits on the north side of the Columbia River, NW of Portland, OR. About 15 min from PDX.
    No clue on the EGR really, don't know much about it, but have a manual on order from cdan. As I understand EGR is part of the FI/emissions equipment, so would a problem with EGR throw a code?
     
  5. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    there is the off chance you got bad gas(fuel;) Had this happen on our 90, ran HORIBLE, finaly got the old gas ran out, new gas in(differnet station) and its been fine. I asked Connie.........did you happen to gas up someplace different right before it started to run crappy?......yes she said.

    just a thought.

    also gas cap is on?
    oil cap is on?
    all vacuume hoses conected.
     
  6. firetruck41

    firetruck41

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    [quote author=fzj link=board=2;threadid=11787;start=msg107445#msg107445 date=1077226335]
    unhook your egr and see if it smooths out, I had that problem with mine, suddenly started running really rough, once I unhooked the egr, it ran perfect!
    [/quote]
    I unhooked the rubber hose between the EGR Valve and the EGR Vacuum Modulator, with no change. Is that where I should've tried to disconnect it?

    Can anybody tell me what the PAIR Reed Valve is, it is on the front passenger side of the engine. It is listed in the vacuum diagram in my Haynes manual, but there is no info about it anywhere in the book.
    It seems to make a funny rattle/click sound when I throttle up and then down. Not sure if it is normal, but I never noticed the sound before.
     
  7. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    A code 22 is engine coolant temperature sensor signal.


    Trouble areas are temp sensor circuit, temp sensor and ECM.

    The PAIR is Pulsed secondary Air Injection.

    It is normal for it to "burble" when you release the throttle.
     
  8. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    >> and all of a sudden while driving at 25mph [] it started running rough. <<
    >> It is like it is "missing", <<

    Hmmmm. Sounds like you need to start basic problem isolation. Does it miss at idle? If yes, remove one plug wire at a time and see if you can isolate the cylinder that is missing. If this doesn't isolate it to a cyl then it may be fuel. How's the fuel filter?

    My first guess (and several people have reported this problem) is the wiring harness up by the EGR valve. You can take a shot at it by gently moving that harness a little and see if that changes anything. Search the archives using keyword=harness and see what you come up with. A couple of guys have reported the harness caused a problem in a couple of other areas; under the dash by the glove box, and along the firewall.

    If it is the harness, the "fix" is to open it up, isolate the FI wire(s) causing the problem, and splice in new wire or otherwise repair the bad/shorted wires.

    -B-
     
  9. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    Ben,

    Give us some more symptoms, then. I've got only that it missed/ran rough when you drove home and that has not changed. Is it missing at idle in P? How about idle in D? When you stomp on it does it still seem to be missing?

    DougM
     
  10. firetruck41

    firetruck41

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    B-
    Exactly what I was going to do, but then I started changing plugs, inspecting hoses, checking for codes, and forgot to do that with the wires, will do first thing tomorrow.

    Doug- It's missing, most noticeably at idle, in P,N,R,D. If in P or N and I rev it up, it almost runs smooth for a second or two. Drove it around the block today, it "misses" from idle up to speed, though it will seem to run normally with no hiccups for ~5 seconds at a time, especially on hard acceleration. It hasn't died, it is very much like a plug is not firing. I am not driving it right now other than to test it, it has loss of power whenever it "misses". Never overheated since I've owned it.
     
  11. Scamper

    Scamper

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    I think all the suggestions above are good and should be tested first. I would also check the oil and coolant for cross contamination, though I don't think (and hope) you'll see any. Also check the fuel filter--when's the last time you replaced it?

    If none of them prove to be the cause, you might want to do a compression check. It's possible that you're seeing early signs of HG failure. Any signs of leakage (pink crusties) around the head? You said that you didn't smell any gas in the exhaust, but did you smell burnt coolant (nasty/acrid smell)? When my HG went, it went suddenly and resulted in similar symptoms to yours, though more severe.

    Tom
     
  12. Tank

    Tank

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    Scamp-

    On a off note, smelling lots of gas in the exhaust after start up...what causes this? Mine does this but of course fades away after a min or two......


    Mark
     
  13. turbocruiser

    turbocruiser SILVER Star

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    [quote author=Tank link=board=2;threadid=11787;start=msg107763#msg107763 date=1077283006]
    Scamp-

    On a off note, smelling lots of gas in the exhaust after start up...what causes this? Mine does this but of course fades away after a min or two......


    Mark
    [/quote]

    Ah, it is cause your garage door is down until you remember to roll it up! Just Joking! When the engine starts from cold, the mix is super rich (almost all cars do this, some more than others, although I do not know why - maybe more rapid warm up - maybe just what happens when an engine is warming up - I have no idea) and you are smelling an "out of tune" super rich running vehicle. Some vehicles have a smog pump that pumps more air into the exhaust mix when the engine starts from cold I think this is supposed to help the catalytic converter last longer. HTH
     
  14. Tank

    Tank

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    TC-

    Ok, stupid question and thats what I thought. (Dam garage door)


    M-
     
  15. cruiserman

    cruiserman

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    Don't waste your money by indiscriminantly buying parts and guessing at the problem. Get the repair manual before you do anything else. Since Dan indicates the code is for the temp sensor circuit, check that out. The repair manual will allow you to troubleshoot the wiring from the sensors to the ECM.
     
  16. floatinghat

    floatinghat

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    FT, shoot me a PM if you want I'll let you borrow my FSM (96). I'm going to swap my pads this weekend if I have a chance but you are welcome to use it. Until you get yours.

    Andre in PDX
     
  17. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    Ben,

    If it runs correctly briefly, it points more to electrical as you're surmising. B's proposal will let you quickly identify the cylinder and is a good call. Since you changed the plugs with no result, I suspect a plug wire/cracked rotor cap or possibly a wiring harness chafe on a fuel injector. Identify the cylinder, then focus on that cylinder. If there's enough room, you can swap plug wires with another cylinder (remember to swap both ends of the plug wire) and see if that deadens the other cylinder while making the problem one run.

    DougM
     
  18. firetruck41

    firetruck41

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    Andre thanks for the offer of your manual, but I don't need it now. :)

    Thanks everyone for their advice.

    I have resolved the problem with new OEM plug wires (thanks cdan). I attempted to remove one wire at a time with the old wires, with no change. So I decided to wait 'til the new wires came in (the LC was overdue for new wires anyway), before I messed with anything else. I got the wires today and replaced them, now it runs normal, though in the back of my mind I think it is not quite as smooth as it was before, but I think I am just "overthinking" So it may have been the wire from the coil to the distributor going bad, as I didn't troubleshoot that one, dunno for sure, but am very happy. :D

    Now I can get ready for front and rear pads, front rotors, birfield repack, just bit the bullet and bought all those parts (thanks again cdan) while I was at it. :D
     
  19. PHAEDRUS

    PHAEDRUS

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    Ben,
    My schedule is chaotic at best but if you need a hand when you go to do the birfs I got two.
    Dave
     
  20. ppc

    ppc M Go Blue

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    If you didn't change them with the new wires I would suggest a new distributor cap and rotor.