Builds Moonshine - A Build Thread (6 Viewers)

[Mr Cimarron]

There are five wires. Red, white and black bundle are gauge power, and they're stuck together. The separate black and white wire pair, that connects to the dimmer, are for lighting.

If you power just the backlighting and not the gauge you'll get a blank white display.

So I have red, white, and black hooked up. With just the red and black I get a bump of the needle to show its working but no display. When I connect the white wire I get a red needle and white display with no back light. I haven't tested with the dimmer but I'm hoping it will light up the backlight.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Right. You're not understanding what I'm saying. If you bought the same gauge as I did, there will be red/black/white stuck together (side bonded or whatever it's called) that's circled in red in the below pic. The white wire circled in red supplies power only to the pointers and LCD backlight. The wiring circled in blue is the white/black side bonded wire bundle, that has to be connected to the inverter, and powers the EL wire gauge backlight.

Not circled is the red/black wire that needs to be wired to constant power.

From your issue, it sounds like your red and black wire (circled in red below) are not wired correctly to your 12v supply. The white wire in the red/black/white needs switched +12v with your gauge lighting, and the red wire needs ignition switched +12v.

 

[Mr Cimarron]

Yup that's how it's wired except I haven't hooked up the inverter black wires yet. I also haven't powered the optional "Hot Start" wire for GPS. For bench testing I usually use a 12v power supply I keep in the house. However I did pop the hood and run direct to battery to rule out my power supply. I sent an email to Speedhut to see what they say. Trying to rule out stupid (me).

 

[cody c]

Do you think the inverter black wire might be needed as part of the circuit (ground) in order for it to work....

You said you haven't hooked it up yet...

 

[Mr Cimarron]

Speed hut confirmed it should be working the way I had it hooked up so they are having me send it back for replacement/fix.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

My moab plans for this year have been ruined by a torn meniscus. Have surgery in the next few weeks. Between recovery and associated costs, moab is not going to happen. 2020 is the new plan.

To lift my spirits, I bought a M&H dynamic timing advance and a low pressure piston fuel pump. Got them installed last night. 15psi at idle, 17psi coasting above 1500rpm, seems about right.

Time to do some more tuning

 

[Mr Cimarron]

Ouch! Clutch leg?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Right leg.

 

[boots4]

For my piston pump set up I started leaking above 15psi out the front IP seal. It doesn't blow up the seal it leaks passed the lip. To me 15psi seems too high so I'd suggest keeping and eye on diesel getting in the oil. After talking to the pump shop after he tested my IP late last year he suggested even lower (I was running 11psi) for the VE pump so I'm now running 7 psi idle. You can clip the spring inside the piston pump in small increments to reduce the pressure. He said in VW applications their VE pumps didn't even have a lift pump. Also having more inlet pressure will affect the dynamic advance making it advance much quicker. It's definitely a balancing act, one thing can affect another on tuning.

Bummer on the leg. Hope surgery goes well and all heals well.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

You are a wealth of knowledge Mike. The sound of the engine running changed, which made me think that somehow the dynamic advance changed the static timing, even though it shouldn't. I didn't know that inlet pressure could change the dynamic timing, so that explains that!!

At 7psi idle with the piston pump, is it able to maintain that pressure during WOT pulls?

 

[Tapage]

playing basketball ?

on a tech related note: those pumps are linear pressure ?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

playing basketball ?

on a tech related note: those pumps are linear pressure ?

Soccer (futbol).

Not sure what you mean by linear pressure. It's a piston pump, driven by the camshaft.

 

[boots4]

You are a wealth of knowledge Mike. The sound of the engine running changed, which made me think that somehow the dynamic advance changed the static timing, even though it shouldn't. I didn't know that inlet pressure could change the dynamic timing, so that explains that!!

The partial way around that is to add some shims (thin washers work too) to the advance piston behind the KSB unit (we are talking thousandths). More preload on that spring delays the piston from moving which delays the dynamic advance. I've played with this too.

At 7psi idle with the piston pump, is it able to maintain that pressure during WOT pulls?

It does keep up. I can still haze at WOT so I figure there's fuel to spare. And my full power screw still has more full left in it.

 

[Jason Andrews]

Quoted the wrong post here

 

[Jason Andrews]

My moab plans for this year have been ruined by a torn meniscus. Have surgery in the next few weeks. Between recovery and associated costs, moab is not going to happen. 2020 is the new plan.

To lift my spirits, I bought a M&H dynamic timing advance and a low pressure piston fuel pump. Got them installed last night. 15psi at idle, 17psi coasting above 1500rpm, seems about right.

Time to do some more tuning

View attachment 1914358

Oh damn, I didn't realize you didn't have a low pressure lift pump or dynamic timing advance mechanism. Should run like a beast now!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The partial way around that is to add some shims (thin washers work too) to the advance piston behind the KSB unit (we are talking thousandths). More preload on that spring delays the piston from moving which delays the dynamic advance. I've played with this too.



It does keep up. I can still haze at WOT so I figure there's fuel to spare. And my full power screw still has more full left in it.

Understood, and thanks for clarifying the function of the KSB. How it advances with RPM is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

When you installed your dynamic timing advance, did you observe lower top-end EGTs? I assume yes, but want to verify correct operation. During an extended test drive yesterday I observed better mid-range and top-end power (expected), but also lower top-end EGTs (unexpected) despite that power. I'm assuming that now the pump can advance further, it's able to burn fuel more efficiently at higher RPM, reducing unburnt fuel, lowering EGTs.

For a datapoint, WOT from 1800rpm to ~2500rpm in 4th gear after about two hours of highway driving, the engine felt stronger than before, but I could not get my EGTs to crest 1000. Before these two mods, I could hit 1200 easily.

Want to verify before turning in my full power screw some more

 

[boots4]

Understood, and thanks for clarifying the function of the KSB. How it advances with RPM is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

As the VE pump spins the internal vane pump creates case pressure. That vane pump is linked to the engine rpm. This case pressure is adjusted by that pressure regulator on the front right of the pump. Your bleed out bolt that returns fuel to the tank is part of that because it has a special sized hole and is a regulated bleed. More case pressure affects/operates the dynamic piston which advances when, meaning the timing, the fuel gets injected into the cylinders. I've also played with case pressure. Some is good but too much doesn't help. The idea is that more case pressure will fill the ports of the high pressure piston with fuel quicker which is beneficial at higher fueling levels and higher rpm.

The lift pump acts on a different path that affects the dynamic piston causing advance.

When you installed your dynamic timing advance, did you observe lower top-end EGTs? I assume yes, but want to verify correct operation. During an extended test drive yesterday I observed better mid-range and top-end power (expected), but also lower top-end EGTs (unexpected) despite that power. I'm assuming that now the pump can advance further, it's able to burn fuel more efficiently at higher RPM, reducing unburnt fuel, lowering EGTs.

Man, it's been so long ago that I install that. I've gotten used to how it performs and have done so many combos on tuning trying to find my just right version. But I do remember that there was a performance increase from it. You assumption sounds spot on to me. Do you know your timing by dial? I'm currently at 1.57mm lift.

For a datapoint, WOT from 1800rpm to ~2500rpm in 4th gear after about two hours of highway driving, the engine felt stronger than before, but I could not get my EGTs to crest 1000. Before these two mods, I could hit 1200 easily.

Want to verify before turning in my full power screw some more

If you've got EGT room turn that thing up! Lots has happened but under WOT with converter locked I climb to 1300F right now.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

As the VE pump spins the internal vane pump creates case pressure. That vane pump is linked to the engine rpm. This case pressure is adjusted by that pressure regulator on the front right of the pump. Your bleed out bolt that returns fuel to the tank is part of that because it has a special sized hole and is a regulated bleed. More case pressure affects/operates the dynamic piston which advances when, meaning the timing, the fuel gets injected into the cylinders. I've also played with case pressure. Some is good but too much doesn't help. The idea is that more case pressure will fill the ports of the high pressure piston with fuel quicker which is beneficial at higher fueling levels and higher rpm.

The lift pump acts on a different path that affects the dynamic piston causing advance.

You're the man. I got it now.

Increasing case pressure can be done by modifying the lift pump pressure supplied through the filter head, or by increasing the RPM of the engine (or by modifying the pressure regulator/return metering valve, but this is uncommon). Case pressure presses on the dynamic piston, and piston movement translates to injection timing advance. Piston movement is both resisted and limited by the spring behind the KSB. The M&H spacer gives more room for the spring to compress, by starting with less overall preload, which gives more range for the dynamic piston, allowing more advance at higher RPM, as case pressure increases.

Man, it's been so long ago that I install that. I've gotten used to how it performs and have done so many combos on tuning trying to fine my just right version. But I do remember that there was a performance increase from it. You assumption sounds spot on to me. Do you know your timing by dial? I'm currently at 1.57mm lift.

I don't, and it's something on my to-do list. I bought the tool and the appropriate MM dial indicator a few years ago, I just haven't made time to get it done. I intend to do that and set timing (probably just to 1.57mm lift like you have) before playing with the full power screw more.

If you've got EGT room turn that thing up! Lots has happened but under WOT with converter locked I climb to 1300F right now.

That's exactly what I'm thinking! Intercooler gave me more room for fuel, and these two mods gave me even more room for fuel.

 

[Tapage]

Not sure what you mean by linear pressure. It's a piston pump, driven by the camshaft.

question answered .. ( not linear, will increase pressure / flow with engine rpm ? )

 

[NC LX]

Right leg.

Just catching up on Moonshine. Same surgery in 2014 on my right knee as well. It wasn't to bad, you'll be hobbling around Moonshine before you know it.