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Roofing Question

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by paulj, Aug 22, 2006.

  1. paulj

    paulj

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    Are there any roofing contractors or (or someone knowledgeable about membrane roofs) on the board? My father-in-law had a rubber membrane roof put on his house in Colorado less than 2 years ago. The contractor screwed up the installation so that the membrane has become detached from the roof deck. It doesn't leak (yet) but it has bubbles in it.

    Questions:
    1) Is there some way to re-attach it to the deck without having to replace the whole thing? I know it wouldn't be recommended, but could the membrane be lag screwed to the roof at say, 2 ft intervals with a large washer and an epoxy seal under each screw?

    2) Would it be possible to cut the membrane a foot or so below where it ties under the shingles of the pitched part of the roof? The idea would be to use the remaining strip of membrane as flashing and then install a conventional tar and gravel roof on the flat part where the membrane roof currently is installed. The reason for doing this is that he's gotten a very expensive bid to replace the membrane part of the roof because it ties under the shingles of the sloping roof above.

    3) Can bricks or something similar be place on top of the roof to hold it down to get it through the winter? High winds create a vacuum and have created bubbles in the membrane. He's probably going to have to sue the contractor, but winter is just around the corner in the mountains, and he needs answers fast.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Cruisin'Carolina

    Cruisin'Carolina

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    I think improper installation is what caused the bubbles...not high winds...but it has been a long time. If winds caused it, it would be an insurable loss...

    No workmanship warranty? Should have given around 5 years labor warranty.

    Do not screw it down.

    It is expensive, but not necessarily because it ties into the shingles......it should go about 18" under the shingles....5 1/4" exposure...only tthree or four courses IIRC.

    I have seen smaller bubbles be cut, and a patch installed over that area...but that is only temporary.

    NO true answer, the only way I'd recommend is to get it done right from somebody who offers a warranty, is not a fly-by-nighter.

    Those guys aren't cheap.
     
  3. Jon in NC

    Jon in NC

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    If the roof that the membrane covers is "flat", cover it with some smooth, white gravel on top to hold the membrane in place.
     
  4. paulj

    paulj

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    Cruisin' Carolina;
    It was definitely improperly installed. The wind sucking it up is a symptom of a failure of the adhesive. I'll ask if there's a warranty. If there is, then what? I'm not sure he should have the incompetent contractor fixing it.
     
  5. osagecruiser

    osagecruiser

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    i have installed several rubber membrane roofs and repaired a few...as stated above the best fix would be to remove the membrane and reglue...thats if the wood fiber underlayment has not been destroyed...assuming it had an underlayment installed...i put down goodyear products...first install wood fibre board..than rubber membrane...adhesive is applied to wood fibre board and to the membrane...all edges are completed using termination bar...the white rock idea sounded like it might work...how big a roof area is it?...you might also try contacting the manufacturer of the product...they may have some good advise for your situation....good luck

    osagecruiser
     
  6. paulj

    paulj

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    osagecruiser;
    I'm just doing this from memory, but I recall 2 large flat areas about 10' x 40'.
     
  7. srplus

    srplus Walked with the Dinosaurs

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    I've been thinking about replacing all of my tar and gravel roofs with membrane... so this thread is very dear to me! What ever you do: DO NOT replace with tar and gravel... it sucks! I have it on 4 flat roof extensions in my current home and am doing the investigation right now to figure out best way to remove all the tar and gravel. I would like to do this myself.

    I am interested in this failure as well as tips as to the best way to go... will start another thread if this is too much of a hijack.
     
  8. osagecruiser

    osagecruiser

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    paul,
    the membrane can be purchased in 10 and 12 foot widths...it costs about .75 per square foot here in kansas...the adhesive is the pricey part of the project..about 90.00 for a 5 gallon pale...covers about 200 s.f applied to both surfaces...was the roof installed with the wood fibre membrane?...you could remove the rubber or at least pull back a corner and see what is going on under there...thats what i would do...report back what you find...what ever you do do not put screws in it.....maybe you could post up a few pics?...these roof can be patched just like an inner tube...using blue glue...good luck

    osagecruiser
     
  9. Cruisin'Carolina

    Cruisin'Carolina

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    some of it may be normal, are you talking huge pockets or just small?

    I've been out of the game for a long time...

    Is the roof visible from the ground? I like modified bitumen, but rubber should be good....

    Google it, you may find some answers, I threw away all of my roof engineering stuff a few years back.

    Edit: listen to osage...after all, one of my crews caught some decking on fire once.....trying to torch down some mod-bit
     
  10. Capt. Jim

    Capt. Jim

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    An easy roof to replace it with is a "peel and stick" cap sheet. It comes in several varieties but I recommend the one with mineral surfacing, the same as on a rolled-modified roofing material. You'll need to strip down to your sheathing and dry-in with 30LB felt using the small plastic orange-colored tin tags. The nailing schedule for your dry-in layer is real close together, so check with the mfg. or local building department. Then just unroll and "peel and stick" the cap sheet down on top of your 30 lb. dry-in. Takes some practice getting it smooth and parallel, so be careful. Once it's down, it dosen't like to come back up.

    Replaced one of my flat decks with it after Hurricane Jeanne. Hurricane Wilma later on caused no damage to it.

    BTW, as a temporary measure, you can indeed hold it down with large river rock, which is referred to as ballast. The Size of rock used here in florida is slightly smaller than a ping-pong ball. It is well-rounded so as not to damage the membrane.

    Good luck.
     
  11. Capt. Jim

    Capt. Jim

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    Also,

    I believe you can apply the cap sheet directly to your sheathing, but I prefer the 30lb. underlayment to make removal easier.
     
  12. White Shark

    White Shark

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    I'd look into the cost of throwing a trussed roof on top. Take a drawing of the roof into your local truss yard, they will engineer a design for you and quote the job of manufacturing and laying the trusses on the roof. Get a quote for a permit from your Building Department and you're ready to go.

    Get a dumpster and get your buddies to have a tear off party / Beer BBQ party on a weekend.

    You can stack the trusses yourself or have a stacking and sheeting crew stand them for a reasonable amount. After they sheet the roof, it's rain gutter and roofing time. No biggie. Asphalt composition shingles are affordable and easy to install.

    I will never, ever, not in a million years, ever get involved with a tar and gravel or membrane fiasco. They work for awhile, but the headaches are eternal. Look into the trussed roof option. It's more affordable than you might suspect.
     
  13. osagecruiser

    osagecruiser

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    thats a great idea shark..i kinda thought they wanted to keep the membrane......ih8flatroofs...i try to avoid building them whenever possible

    osagecruiser
     
  14. FJ40-GARAGE

    FJ40-GARAGE I`ll be back....

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    Flatroofing is no misery if done proper. ;)

    Pictures would help, forget shingles when you have just a slight pitched roof.
    my 2 cent.
     
  15. bkfj40

    bkfj40 SILVER Star

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    I would avoid putting ballast (white rocks or other colors depending on location) on the roof...most of the roofs I encounter in industrial areas are switching to concrete pavers ~1" by 16" square or so...you can get the "walking pads" and cut them up and put them between the paver and the existing roof....place them at 4' to 6' centers....

    There are lots of other options out there, and I am by no means an expert on roofing, but I do lots of structural engineering and spend lots of time on roofs (and in crawlspaces - I prefer roofs)

    bk
     
  16. paulj

    paulj

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    I think I have some pictures somewhere which I'll try to put up later. As for the trusses, that's not an option. It wouldn't work architecturally, and it would take too long to design, permit, and build.
    I'll think about the re-gluing option, but that's already been done once, and for some reason it hasn't worked. The reason I thought about tar and gravel is that what was up there before for like 20 years and it worked fine. All of my father-in-law's problems started when he had the membrane roof installed. He has no faith in the worthless contractor who put it in and has asked me to look into his options. The 3 new contractors I got bids from want thousands of dollars to reinstall a membrane roof.
     
  17. osagecruiser

    osagecruiser

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    regluing did not work...that is strange..i would really like to see a pic of what is under that membrane...when it was reglued before was the entire membrane taken loos at the edges..rolled back half way glue applied and then the half with glue layed back down?..then the other side the same way...sounds really strange that its been glued twice and still has not stuck...i will check back when photos get posted

    osagecruiser
     
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