Have a look at this thread https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/486909-canuck-rhd-insurance-tactics.html if you want to know more and help out.
RHD Private Insurance Problems
- Thread starter canucksafari
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I found it funny the insurence guy was asking me if the truck was right hand drive when I was insuring a brand new dodge cummins one ton for work which we bought in Alberta. The RHD issue is bigger than I thought when they are asking this question in Red Neck ville up here where there are almost no RHD's.
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- #3
Deny, we know that ICBC has started asking if a vehicle is RHD ever since we told them their study was BS. They knew they didn't have a statistical leg to stand on. So now they are trying to make sure they have all RHDs properly recorded as such. At the same time, we know they are fudging the data again by trying to write-off every RHD that has a claim. I saw a SWB Safari go (via someone with access to ICBC's auctions) for $1100. The only damage was a dash where the thieves ripped out the stereo and the front bezel and bumper. I figure there was a max of $1000 in parts and $400 in Labour, with most parts locally available or can be ordered and here in 2 weeks . So now you got a likely $8,000-$10,000 write-off for a max of $2000 in damage. 
That is just one of many. I saw a Kie class 4x4 written off and all that was wrong with it was the windshield was shot. All purchasers, shops only, are required to prove to ICBC that they have been destroyed so they can't be driven (drivetrain removal, frame or body cut, etc).
My gut instinct is ICBC will come out with another report showing that statistically RHDs have a greater chance of being written off and therefore are more dangerous. They'll push for higher premiums or push for a ban based on that. I doubt ICBC will try to pull anything until after the next provincial election.
At the political level, I was happy to see that Paul Taylor was given the golden handshake by Christie Clark - despite getting over $100,000 of severance for a few months work in a patronage appointment. $2.4M B.C. severance by 'the rules:' Clark - British Columbia - CBC News However, I am sure Kevin Falcon will be right there as #2 in command to champion the cause of the Automobile Industry. Once a car sales man always a car sales man. It is not only rust they cover with bondo and cheap paint.
That is just one of many. I saw a Kie class 4x4 written off and all that was wrong with it was the windshield was shot. All purchasers, shops only, are required to prove to ICBC that they have been destroyed so they can't be driven (drivetrain removal, frame or body cut, etc).My gut instinct is ICBC will come out with another report showing that statistically RHDs have a greater chance of being written off and therefore are more dangerous. They'll push for higher premiums or push for a ban based on that. I doubt ICBC will try to pull anything until after the next provincial election.
At the political level, I was happy to see that Paul Taylor was given the golden handshake by Christie Clark - despite getting over $100,000 of severance for a few months work in a patronage appointment. $2.4M B.C. severance by 'the rules:' Clark - British Columbia - CBC News However, I am sure Kevin Falcon will be right there as #2 in command to champion the cause of the Automobile Industry. Once a car sales man always a car sales man. It is not only rust they cover with bondo and cheap paint.
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Keep up the good fight. I don't really have a horse in this race since I don't own a RHD, but I sure don't like the opportunity being taken away.
I do know what it's like to drive a vehicle that has no value in ICBC's skewed eyes. I had to insure my Renaults every year knowing that damages exceeding my deductible would result in a write off. Insurance was a formality just to cover the what-if injuries, not the vehicle. So yeah, a cracked windsheild would spell the end of those vehicles.
I do know what it's like to drive a vehicle that has no value in ICBC's skewed eyes. I had to insure my Renaults every year knowing that damages exceeding my deductible would result in a write off. Insurance was a formality just to cover the what-if injuries, not the vehicle. So yeah, a cracked windsheild would spell the end of those vehicles.
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- #5
Thanks for the support Martin.
The dif between the LHD Reneault is that you could rebuild it, pass an inspection and re-register it with a rebuilt status. ICBC is making it a condition of the auction sale that no RHDs can be rebuilt. What should piss everyone off, is that we all are paying for these write-off payouts on vehicles which could be fixed for much less. I 've a few RHD owners who got a big payout post laughing because they'll just go and buy a better RHD. Just like the import/retailers who were selling crap, they don't have the brain power or courtesy to see what is down the road...
The dif between the LHD Reneault is that you could rebuild it, pass an inspection and re-register it with a rebuilt status. ICBC is making it a condition of the auction sale that no RHDs can be rebuilt. What should piss everyone off, is that we all are paying for these write-off payouts on vehicles which could be fixed for much less. I 've a few RHD owners who got a big payout post laughing because they'll just go and buy a better RHD. Just like the import/retailers who were selling crap, they don't have the brain power or courtesy to see what is down the road...
Probably true. Buying their way to 'acheive' their stats. I guess they play on the fact that everyone has a price where they will sell out.
Interesting though, they can't just write off a vehicle without giving the owner a chance to make up the difference on the repair costs. Or keep the vehicle after it is written off for a determined buy back cost for parts only. Just don't let the bastards take them and put them on auction/crusher. Couldn't a guy combine parts from a bunch of parts vehicles and call it a u-built? Or will they not pass a rhd u-built in the inspections?
Interesting though, they can't just write off a vehicle without giving the owner a chance to make up the difference on the repair costs. Or keep the vehicle after it is written off for a determined buy back cost for parts only. Just don't let the bastards take them and put them on auction/crusher. Couldn't a guy combine parts from a bunch of parts vehicles and call it a u-built? Or will they not pass a rhd u-built in the inspections?
shibubba
Maximum Effort
This is starting to worry me. Looks like I am now going to find a LHD body to start the swap. s***
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- #8
IMO, that is the wrong strategy. You are then just letting ICBC and CADA bully you into doing what they want. It's time Canadians got cracking and grow some...
...some eggs?
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- #10
It is a literal translation of way they say it in Mexico for "grow some balls" (crece unos huevos). It is implied that the person is a steer (buey). Doesn't have any eggs - aka courage. I though with all the trips to TLCA events down south you all would have all learned some basic Spanish put downs by now.
The only Spanish I know, aside from ordering beer, was taught to me by an exchange student while in grade 8.
Something like "chinga du madre, puto!"
Something like "chinga du madre, puto!"
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- #12
Obviously MUD's granny filter only works for English. BTW, I would not be saying that to anyone in Mexico. I once gave it in sign to a guy driving a water truck in Mexico City who got to close to me while I was crossing the street. He stopped in the middle of the six lane road and chased after me with a machete. I discovered that I actually could sprint pretty good in Mexico City smog.
I guess the RHD community that have to deal with ICBC, should be prepared to record everything when they have a claim, and start making our own case to bring to the media, and try and get it out before they do. Maybe make an ICBC tool kit for claims, like a list of things to do, a spy cam, and get independent quotes from body shops on the cost of repairs, and the severity of the damage, from the ones that are ICBC accredited. That could ICBC up, when they come out with another BS report.
ICBC up, when they come out with another BS report.
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- #14
I guess the RHD community that have to deal with ICBC, should be prepared to record everything when they have a claim, and start making our own case to bring to the media, and try and get it out before they do. Maybe make an ICBC tool kit for claims, like a list of things to do, a spy cam, and get independent quotes from body shops on the cost of repairs, and the severity of the damage, from the ones that are ICBC accredited. That could
I think any time you are dealing with an insurer that it is a good idea to record everything. In my experience, their prime objective is to take your money and avoid paying out if you have a claim.
That said, it would help build a case against insurers if we can show they are descriminating against RHDs without good reason. It would be even better if we could prove that they have been fabricating evidence. Lance, if you'd like to help by doing a tool kit, one that could be used across Canada, that would be great. It would help us deal with the threats from ICBC and also other insurers across Canada.
As for ICBC write-off, take this little Sambar that was written off just for a broken windshield...
If you were authorize to bid on ICBC's actions, you could have bought this vehicle. You could have gotten a new windshield and new seal for around $550 retail from RMI or maybe cheaper somewhere else. <ICBC never pays close to retail. I presume that ICBC cost total would have been close to $550 including labour.> But the real kicker under the condition of sale is you could not have the vehicle inspected and re-registered.
The more eveidence we can collect on cases similar to this, the more likely it is we will be able to enlist the help of the media. Stuff like this should not only p*ss off RHD owners but also everyone who pays premiums. Everyone pays more when claims are improperly paid out.
BiffS
Too many projects... ooh, look. Something shiny.
as someone who has personally had a vehicle written off by ICBC, i have first hand experience as to how the adjusters will "automatically" write off any RHD with even a hint of damage. My adjuster said as much in our discussions. he also admitted to having owned and driven a RHD years ago before the JDM import craze, and felt that they were fine on the roads, but that the current policy was ICBC's mandate to get them off the roads.
Perhaps the best defense is a good offense? Maybe someone with more IVOCAish experience should / contact the media and raise awareness as to ICBC wasting motorist's money writing off perfectly good vehicles with little regard to the economics of the value (i.e paying out 20,000 for a 1,000 claim).
my $.02
Perhaps the best defense is a good offense? Maybe someone with more IVOCAish experience should / contact the media and raise awareness as to ICBC wasting motorist's money writing off perfectly good vehicles with little regard to the economics of the value (i.e paying out 20,000 for a 1,000 claim).
my $.02
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- #16
I've been in the IVOAC ball game as a founding member (actually before IVOAC was started).
Are you (or anyone else) willing to testify to that experience with ICBC - go on the record? PM me your details and I will add your name to a list. The more people we have who are willing to make a statement and offer the proof, the more likely it will be attractive to the media.
IVOAC is like many volunteer run groups - even the CC or 4WDABC. It is often a small group that does most of the work. The more who are willing to help out and take responsibility for a small chunk of the work, the more likely we will be successful.
On a related note, I met briefly with Dom (Domspun) at lunch time here in Montreal. He was just coming from a meeting with his lawyer and researcher. <This is not his paid job. He actually works for a contractor building aircraft landing gear.> Without giving away the strategy on a public site, I can tell everyone that the case is coming together nicely. If everything goes well, it could be in court fairly soon. Winning this case will not only impact RHD registration in Quebec but it will impact the concerns of registration and insuring across the country. It will also be an important lesson to the members of CCMTA (Insurers, Prov & Fed Transport Depts, Auto Makers, Auto Dealers) that Canadians will not put up with an unelected and unaccountable organization dictating public policy on what we are able to drive on our roads.
In the mean time, an election will be coming within the year. Everyone can take the time, to bring up issues like this with their current MLA and candidates running for office. I won't speak for the 4WDABC, but maybe they will come up with some questions they would like to see all four wheelers asking. There are lots of opportunities to help make a difference.
Ugh. Last time I emailed my MLA to voice my concerns about CADA and their BS, this was his response:
"Thank you for your recent email regarding the CADA.
I have forwarded your e-mail on to the Minister of Industry for his review.
The CADA is not a government body and as such, does not fall under the prevue of the Federal Government of Canada. I therefore, suggest that you contact the CADA directly to register your objections.
I understand the point you are making and I appreciate you taking the time to write and share your concerns with me."
Yeah, I bet registering my objections WITH CADA will really help them see the light.
"Thank you for your recent email regarding the CADA.
I have forwarded your e-mail on to the Minister of Industry for his review.
The CADA is not a government body and as such, does not fall under the prevue of the Federal Government of Canada. I therefore, suggest that you contact the CADA directly to register your objections.
I understand the point you are making and I appreciate you taking the time to write and share your concerns with me."
Yeah, I bet registering my objections WITH CADA will really help them see the light.
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- #18
Having a dialogue with CADA is like having a dialogue with a car salesman.
I think you emailed your MP. I got pretty much the same response the first time from my MP. I doubt if he even saw it. His office staff just surfed through it and did the pat response.
If you can afford the time and effort, it is best to meet them face to face.
My question to an MP would be why is the Federal Ministry of Transport a member of a private NGO, CCMTA, and why does it allow the CCMTA to influence public policy outside of public view and accountability? It would help if you could brief the MP on what and who the CCMTA is... Welcome to CCMTA's Web Site!
The same would go for any MLA/candidate regarding ICBC (as a crown corporation), the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure and the Ministry of Public Safety and the Solicitor General. With an MLA/candidate, I'd get a little more to the point about the ICBC study and give her/him a copy of the IVOAC commisioned professional evalaution of that study. I 'd also comment that I had heard from a number of sources that ICBC was in the process of writing off RHDs that were fixable for less than the cost of the pay out. I'd also mention that it seemed strange that a crown corporation would so willing waste our money for no clear benefit of the vehicle owner or the financial health of the corporation. Of course, put the question to them about what they are or will do about it.
I think you emailed your MP. I got pretty much the same response the first time from my MP. I doubt if he even saw it. His office staff just surfed through it and did the pat response.
If you can afford the time and effort, it is best to meet them face to face.
My question to an MP would be why is the Federal Ministry of Transport a member of a private NGO, CCMTA, and why does it allow the CCMTA to influence public policy outside of public view and accountability? It would help if you could brief the MP on what and who the CCMTA is... Welcome to CCMTA's Web Site!
The same would go for any MLA/candidate regarding ICBC (as a crown corporation), the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure and the Ministry of Public Safety and the Solicitor General. With an MLA/candidate, I'd get a little more to the point about the ICBC study and give her/him a copy of the IVOAC commisioned professional evalaution of that study. I 'd also comment that I had heard from a number of sources that ICBC was in the process of writing off RHDs that were fixable for less than the cost of the pay out. I'd also mention that it seemed strange that a crown corporation would so willing waste our money for no clear benefit of the vehicle owner or the financial health of the corporation. Of course, put the question to them about what they are or will do about it.
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- #19
I see CCMTA has not hidden "fleet renewal" (aka make you get rid of your old vehicles) behind it's closed doors again. It is up as an initiative for its Strategy 2015 program: Canada's Road Safety Strategy 2015. Although, they are kind of light on the details.
Thanks for posting this, it is all quite eye-opening. Had no idea.