Retirement Shop (2 Viewers)

[WarDamnEagle]

First a very brief background. I currently work out of the country and my wife and I have been stuck in the US since March. Given a bit of free time, the wife and I looked at a few properties to potentially build our future retirement home on. On a whim we looked at 17 acres with a house that caught our interest. Long story short, we fell in love with the house and closed on the property a few weeks ago. Major bonus, the house came with a detached 40' x 40', heated and cooled shop. Building has 16' walls with 2 12' x 14' commercial roll-up doors on one end.

I have a nice cabinet system that will eventually go in and I plan on adding a 2 post, asymmetric lift. I also plan on an epoxy flake floor coating. I really need to start with the walls though as it's difficult to do much cabinet or floor wise until those are sorted. The end wall columns and side wall struts are 8" wide (or deep) and the struts run horizontal at 7' and 12'. I want to build interior walls and have been considering either 4" or 6" concrete block (CMU) up to the first strut and metal studs with Sheetrock above that to the 12' strut. I would probably leave the walls above that strut as is. My though was to inset the CMU and Sheetrock by maybe 1/2" and leave the face of the struts and end columns exposed.

I searched the internet and Garage Journal and couldn't really come up with this combination. I even started a thread in GJ but most of the replies were along the lines of "why would you want to do that?" I'm not sure if there are any technical show stoppers but also not sure the CMU "look" up to 7' is worth all the trouble. Would be much easier to just Sheetrock up to 12'.

Thought I would throw the idea out to the great minds in mud and see what opinions I get. Here's a couple of photos of what I'll be working with.

 

[PAToyota]

I can't say I've seen it in a pole building, but I have a 2' knee wall with 2x framed walls above that. I really like being able to wash things down without getting the framing/drywall wet.

Unless you have a specific reason, the 7' seems excessive - particularly for a 4" CMU wall. The 6" cmu would be better from a stability standpoint, but I'd consider less than 7' with drywall above that to the strut.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

I can't say I've seen it in a pole building, but I have a 2' knee wall with 2x framed walls above that. I really like being able to wash things down without getting the framing/drywall wet.

Unless you have a specific reason, the 7' seems excessive - particularly for a 4" CMU wall. The 6" cmu would be better from a stability standpoint, but I'd consider less than 7' with drywall above that to the strut.

Good points. I guess I was going for the full 7' to get to the first strut without bringing the wall face any further in. If I brought the face in another inch or two then I could drywall over the first strut and basically make it disappear. Then it wouldn't matter how high I made the CMU portion. Something to consider.

 

[agomez]

Do 2x4/6 Wood infill framing flush with the existing metal framing. Run a 2x sill and top plate for the studs on top/below the existing metal framing. You would need to bolt/screw those to the existing metal frame. Now you’ve got a lot of flexibility to finish the walls with Sheetrock, plywood, pegboard, or any other cool wall surface to hang stuff on. Having wood framing also makes it easier to anchor the upper and lower cabinets. 2cents. Nice man cave!

 

[Ol Yeller]

I lined my shop with a full lift of reject 1/2” G1S plywood, screwed on like drywall and just painted it out, very happy to have something that isn’t so fragile as drywall.

I don’t have much experience on the block portion of the wall though, my concrete footing is 18” above grade and that seems good to protect the walls.

Look fw to seeing what you do with it!

 

[waiting for time]

My shop is part of a larger steel frame building. They sectioned the building using wood framing between the steel struts first covering That with plywood followed by sheet rock. I use 9mm mdf Where I want to hang Stuff on the wall. I don’t have to look for struts to hang cabinets on, just screw in a solid wall where you want.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Do 2x4/6 Wood infill framing flush with the existing metal framing. Run a 2x sill and top plate for the studs on top/below the existing metal framing. You would need to bolt/screw those to the existing metal frame. Now you’ve got a lot of flexibility to finish the walls with Sheetrock, plywood, pegboard, or any other cool wall surface to hang stuff on. Having wood framing also makes it easier to anchor the upper and lower cabinets. 2cents. Nice man cave!

That's more or less what I was thinking if I don't use CMU for the lower portion. Leaning towards steel studs and sills though. I'm a big fan of wood normally but thought I would avoid it in my "metal" building.

What do you do about the angled turn in on bottom of the struts (see last photo)? Do you put your top plate flush with the bottom of it or do you notch the wood studs? That detail is one reason I was considering framing an inch or so inside the metal framing and having the sheetrock inset so that it tucked behind that turn in (or lip or whatever it's called).

Are you really in the Falklands these days? Pretty cool.

 

[agomez]

Metal studs are fine just a lot of screwing. I mentioned wood because it’s easy to frame. Frame it flush with the existing steel structure, on that corner just run your sheetrock/wood/other over the Metal structure. You can anchor Your new wall material into the metal studs On this side of the existing metal structure. That little bit of overlap Of material will be fine. On the angled turn run your plate flush, you may need a horizontal nailer on the backside of the plate. Don’t be afraid to use wood or you can weld in some metal tabs from behind to anchor the plate. Notching the studs Would be a lot of work. Wherever a condition gets funky just weld some metal tabs in place to anchor the metal framing. It’s all non load bearing. Hope that helps.

 

[snobdds]

I would just leave your walls how they are, keep the insulation. Just frame up a metal wall on the outside of your frame. Put some pro panels on the bottom to allow things to be hosed down, then sheetrock or plywood up from there. Insetting metal studs would be a pain. Plus electricians would not like to run wire through that mess.

A metal framing company could have that framed and sheeted in 3 days.

 

[Armed in Utah]

On my 50x30 red iron framed garage & R19 insulated

Built this in 2014.......Also has a 2' concrete stem wall...

I added 2x4x8 inner walls on top of stemwall..but first added R4 rigid 4x8 sheets against the R19

Then...stuffed R13 in between studs..over the top I added 1/2" OSB board and then painted white

Although not completely to the 19' ceiling....it really helped retain the heat....45K BTU radiant tube heater

Winters are long and cold here.....keep heater set at 68* all winter....NG is cheap !

2 OH doors...1-16x8 and 1 10x8'......pic will give you an idea of how it looks

 

[Armed in Utah]

2014 construction

 

[WarDamnEagle]

I would just leave your walls how they are, keep the insulation. Just frame up a metal wall on the outside of your frame. Put some pro panels on the bottom to allow things to be hosed down, then sheetrock or plywood up from there. Insetting metal studs would be a pain. Plus electricians would not like to run wire through that mess.

A metal framing company could have that framed and sheeted in 3 days.

I hear you but I don't want to give up any more square footage than I have to. Wiring is essentially all done although I will add a few more outlets to the circuits. By pro panels I assume you mean metal roofing material? I've considered something along those lines. Thanks.

On my 50x30 red iron framed garage & R19 insulated

Built this in 2014.......Also has a 2' concrete stem wall...

I added 2x4x8 inner walls on top of stemwall..but first added R4 rigid 4x8 sheets against the R19

Then...stuffed R13 in between studs..over the top I added 1/2" OSB board and then painted white

Although not completely to the 19' ceiling....it really helped retain the heat....45K BTU radiant tube heater

Winters are long and cold here.....keep heater set at 68* all winter....NG is cheap !

2 OH doors...1-16x8 and 1 10x8'......pic will give you an idea of how it looks

Nice shop. Fortunately we don't have super cold winters down here. It's all about keeping it coolish in the summer.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

One year update. I've made almost no progress.

I have abandoned the CMU wall idea so I guess that's a bit of progress. I've also decided to change out the 8 fluorescents to 16 linear LEDs. Something between 12k and 15k lumens each. Will wire them as they are now, each side on a switch, but will include dimmers. Also trying to do a bit more layout as I need to get some 220 circuits ran. Right now I'm thinking lift, compressor, and welder outlets. The welder outlet will go front left so that I can weld outside except of course when I have to weld on something on the lift. Would prefer to keep most welding and grinding outdoors whenever possible. Lift will go back left but well off the back and side walls. Not sure about compressor. Would love to have it outside but we get a lot of rain so it would need an enclosure. Maybe front left near the welder outlet. Compressors are noisy but I guess they are only noisy when they are running. Other major tools I am considering is a blast cabinet, parts washer, stand alone drill press, 20T press, and probably a largish combination belt sander. Most of that should fit on the left wall. The 16' wide metal cabinet system I have will go on the rear wall along with my 5' roll cab. I have some shelving and workbench tables but most of that is till TBD. Have started looking for a heavy, good sized welding table on casters so I can roll it in and out.

I'm generally thinking about this building as workshop in the left bay and mancave in the right bay. Not exactly sure what the mancave part looks like but if I get the bathroom sorted then probably some kitchen style cabinets, fridge, and possibly brewing equipment. Should be plenty of room to still store a Land Cruiser or two right, left, or center.

The shop is plumbed for a bathroom in the back right corner. Unfortunately the shop is near a creek and just above the flood plain so no way to put in a small septic system (at least not legally). Considering a grinder pump but it's about 400' uphill to the house septic system. I'm sure that won't be cheap but I want to run fiber optic from the house to the shop so I need to trench anyway. We will be home for a few weeks in December and January so I'm going to try to get these details nailed down then.

We are less than a year away from being back permanently so I need to get my ducks in a row on the floor and walls. Leaning toward metal studs, inset but flush with the face of the girts. 4' of cement board with plywood (or maybe sheetrock) above to the 12' girt. Heavily considering porcelain tile floors so maybe 4' of tile with just paint above. Or maybe just 12' of plywood with some cove at the bottom.

So bottom line I probably have more open questions now than a year ago.

 

[1911]

One year update. I've made almost no progress.

I feel your pain! Work on our house (and being able to use my shop) has been stalled for 2 years, but may finally be starting again. Good luck on your progress.

 

[waiting for time]

What type of welding are you planning to do?
If you want to weld outside keep in mind that welding gasses don’t work when there is any wind.
Might be better to look at welding fume extraction.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

What type of welding are you planning to do?
If you want to weld outside keep in mind that welding gasses don’t work when there is any wind.
Might be better to look at welding fume extraction.

Great question. No idea really. Maybe none or very little. I learned to stick weld as a young teenager but haven't done any welding in years. Thought I might get both an Arc welder and a Mig. Would like to take some classes to learn Mig once I'm retired. I have no plans, for example, to weld sheet metal parts into my Land Cruisers. I will leave that to the experts.

Really just trying to future proof the shop. Put the welding outlet near the roll up door and have a rolling fabrication table. That would cover inside or outside. As far as fume extraction I doubt I would go that far unless I just fell into a deal on something.

 

[waiting for time]

Great question. No idea really. Maybe none or very little. I learned to stick weld as a young teenager but haven't done any welding in years. Thought I might get both an Arc welder and a Mig. Would like to take some classes to learn Mig once I'm retired. I have no plans, for example, to weld sheet metal parts into my Land Cruisers. I will leave that to the experts.

Really just trying to future proof the shop. Put the welding outlet near the roll up door and have a rolling fabrication table. That would cover inside or outside. As far as fume extraction I doubt I would go that far unless I just fell into a deal on something.

That is how I started……….
Space and land cruisers is a dangerous combination, before you know it you need more of both.

 

[Waorani]

Switching out the fluorescents to LED is great upgrade you won't regret. I've got a good bit of 10-4 XHHW-2 wire if that's something that would work for your 220 circuits. Wire is stupid expensive now so that could save you a few $$.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Switching out the fluorescents to LED is great upgrade you won't regret. I've got a good bit of 10-4 XHHW-2 wire if that's something that would work for your 220 circuits. Wire is stupid expensive now so that could save you a few $$.

Haven't gotten around to sizing any wire yet but that could work for at least some of the circuits. I'll reach back out when I get to that point. Thanks!

 

[J Mack]

"why would you want to do that?"

I had 7' tin walls put up in my shop and so far I'm happy with them, just white insulation above the walls but I haven't had any issues.