Reintroduction ?? ?? Wolves...??

TJDIV

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Mom's wiener dog of 7 years got killed by a wolf last night, just a few yards from our front door. Drug off into the woods, and apparently eaten. Mom said she tried to holler at it, scream, etc, but that the wolf just stared at her {read, was NOT afraid}


Interesting, because Michigan's Department of Natural Resources has been so supportive of the reintroduction of wolves for the last several years. In Upper Michigan.


I think it's flat out ignorant, and lacks any foresight what-so-ever. Argue the habitat and everything else all you want, but we have lived on LARGE pieces of property forever up there and have NEVER had wolf problems. No problems until some dumb s*** politician needs a few extra votes and cashes in by promises to bring back the beautiful, majestic wolf to Michigan's Upper Penninsula.


Sorry, but I don't see this as habitat encroachment AT ALL. Wolves there first...blah blah blah.....They were brought in and bread/protected, etc...and now they're going to become a big time pain in the ass.


I'm pretty pissed off that the animal was too quick to leave, and didn't end up DEAD like it should have. Especially with absolutely no fear of humans, etc...

And to think the DNR intentionally reintro's these animals into territory's that they {should} know couldn't support them.
 
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jesus -- i am sorry for this -- the trauma for your mom and her pup is awful --

:(

i agree that there is too much encroachment on both sides --

:(

reinforcements available, if needed -- just let me know -- :D

e

 

Jomama

 
 
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Reintro?

There is a active reintro program?

As far as I can tell, its a natural repopulation, as its been in Wisconsin and Minnesota.


Truely sorry for your moms loss, dogs are family. Words cant replace her friend.
 

NorCalDoug

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erics_bruisers said:
jesus -- i am sorry for this -- the trauma for your mom and her pup is awful --
:(
i agree that there is too much encroachment on both sides --
:(
reinforcements available, if needed -- just let me know -- :D
e
replace a weiner with a pit
:confused:
not quite a similar match in my book...but it could work
:idea:
not likely the wolf would be dragging off the pit
:D
if a wolf vs. pit encounter did happen -- I'm sure the pit would be looked upon as the aggressor...
:(

I think these guys really need to think long and hard about the ramifications of reintroducing species around existing human settlements...I don't think this particular reintroduction will help the wolf's cause much.
 
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erics_bruisers said:
jesus -- i am sorry for this -- the trauma for your mom and her pup is awful --

:(

i agree that there is too much encroachment on both sides --

:(

reinforcements available, if needed -- just let me know -- :D

e

gotta admit e might have a point here. :D

sorry to hear about your moms dog dude that truly sucks. :frown:
 

buckroseau

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In Northern MN where I live it is an issue here as well. The Timberwolf population is at an all time high and the debate about controlling the population in this area is tense at times.

In this area it has never been a re-introduction by the DNR, just natural re-population. But after many, many very mild winters in a row it comes back to the whitetail deer population up here. The deer population in Minnesota is at an all time high, so.......

Timberwolves like to eat deer up in this area, more deer, more wolves.

Matt
 

Fly Rod

 
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Sorry to hear about your moms dog.

As far as the wolf is concerned, any wolf that becomes an issue in populated areas should be dealt with. No question there.

I look forward to seeing one in the wild while I am elk hunting. I wouldn't shoot one unless it was a threat to myself or a loved one, which includes my dogs.

Fly Rod
 

TJDIV

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Yeah, the s***ty part is she watched it, and the wolf just glared at her.


It is a reintroduction. Started happening the same time they flew several moose down from Canada, etc. I don't remember specific dates, etc...but grew up in the woods and my grandfather and I have opposed it since day one. Not only does the winter freeze eliminate 40 to 60% of the deer herd, but the DNR thinks that the Wolves will do well? Foolish. Some things need to be left to nature.


I would have lost my head if that had been me watching, etc. Wolves ARE very interesting animals. Just not in your front yard killing your dog.

Oh, and the kicker of it all? If my dad had shot and killed it he would have been fined $5000!!!!!!!!
 

Jomama

 
 
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Not trying to detract from your moms loss. I would wish that on no one. My friends daughter watched their Lasa-apsa (sp?) get taken by a coyote in South Cali..




But do you mean the "failed" 1974 wolf reintroduction.

"Only one wolf reintroduction has been attempted in Michigan. In 1974, a pack of four Minnesota wolves was released in Marquette County. All died or were killed as a result of direct human activities within nine months. These wolves did not reproduce and did not contribute to the current wolf population. Read more about the failed 1974 Michigan wolf reintroduction (PDF)."
http://www.northland.edu/soei/twa_michigan.asp


Their presence in MN, WI, and MI is completely natural.

Summary of the MI wolf plan
http://www.fws.gov/midwest/wolf/state-plans/miplansum.htm

In MN problem wolves have been actively managed. On average the USDA Federal Trapper in MN killed 200 a year. I'm not certain of the exact status of the Delisting in the Midwest (timeline wise), but the manament plans exist to transfer management authority to the states....
 

71-CRUISER

 
 
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TJDIV said:
Foolish. Some things need to be left to nature.
Between 1870 and 1877, bounty hunters employed by the United States government killed approximately 55,000 wolves each year, for a total of 385,000 wolf deaths in only seven years. ( http://www.ladywolf.com/wolf1.html )

You call that "left to nature"?

It sucks that you lost your dog but I had to add some perspective to this whole argument.
 

TJDIV

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71-CRUISER said:
Between 1870 and 1877, bounty hunters employed by the United States government killed approximately 55,000 wolves each year, for a total of 385,000 wolf deaths in only seven years. ( http://www.ladywolf.com/wolf1.html )

You call that "left to nature"?

It sucks that you lost your dog but I had to add some perspective to this whole argument.


That's a fairly weak perspective. To protect {via fines for killing} an animal like that is foolish. Sad thing is, it's only a matter of time before a group of kids get attacked or messed with.

And after talking with the DNR today is does seem that this rise in wolf popluation IS in fact natural, and that they are [to quote the DNR] "spreading like mad" right now.


Perspective could be shouldered on anything, from the White Pines being WIPED out to rebuild Chicago, to the fishing in Lake Superior being WIPED out by OVER fishing and the DNR allowing that to happen.

Sliced up or down, I call it bulls*** and when I make it home on June 18th I hope to see that damned animal again.

http://www.freep.com/news/mich/wolves27e_20050427.htm
 

Jman

 
 
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Yer mom should have shot the fxxxer and buried it in the back yard. Sorry for the loss, I'm sure it's not what she needs to see. Wild animals are nice and all, but we don't need them coming up to our doorstep.

On the "who's fault" side, I had a bit of an argument, IH8MUD style, with a friend over the weekend. He's a hunting/fishing/camping guy, he's into natural cycles, kill or be killed, etc. For some reason, he tried to blame the "lack of predation/predatory animals" in the east on "the liberals--they just don't like to see anything die." I pointed out the recent bear hunt in NJ was opposed by . . . uh . . . the liberals. Eventually he just said "ahhh, whatever."

It's the wolf's fault her dog got killed--shoot the fxxxer.
 

Jomama

 
 
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TJDIV said:
And after talking with the DNR today is does seem that this rise in wolf popluation IS in fact natural, and that they are [to quote the DNR] "spreading like mad" right now.
I've no doubt they put it to you like that. They're still in the upswing from the bounty days.

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/wolf/population/mi_wi_nos.htm

The MI state plan is for a pop cap of 1800. MN has had 1500+ for quite some time now. s*** happens, but MN is getting along quite well with lots of wolves, as does pretty much every remote village in the state of AK. However, I dont know the poplation layout of the U.P. like I do nothern MN. When they do prey on pets and such, the sensationalism of the situation will always make the front pages :rolleyes:
My first week in Alaska, the front page article was of a persons toy poodle being carried off by a bald eagle.
 
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Jman said:
Yer mom should have shot the fxxxer and buried it in the back yard. Sorry for the loss, I'm sure it's not what she needs to see. Wild animals are nice and all, but we don't need them coming up to our doorstep.

On the "who's fault" side, I had a bit of an argument, IH8MUD style, with a friend over the weekend. He's a hunting/fishing/camping guy, he's into natural cycles, kill or be killed, etc. For some reason, he tried to blame the "lack of predation/predatory animals" in the east on "the liberals--they just don't like to see anything die." I pointed out the recent bear hunt in NJ was opposed by . . . uh . . . the liberals. Eventually he just said "ahhh, whatever."

It's the wolf's fault her dog got killed--shoot the fxxxer.

:cheers: :cheers:
 

semlin

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Coyotes ate a friend's weiner dog right here in town. They also ate our cat and left bits and pieces strewn over a block and a half. He was a great cat and it sucked but I preferred he go out that way than hit by a car like his brother.
 

buckroseau

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A couple years ago a guy I know about 40 miles from where I live (in Northern MN) owns a motorcylce shop kinda out in the woods. Grey Owl hauled off his wiener dog right off his deck kicking and yelping, obviously never saw it again. I don't know, right or wrong? Wrong that the dog was killed, but I don't know if it was wrong that the grey owl hauled off the dog. I supposed about the size of a rabbit to it?

I don't get into the wolf debate to much up here. I know I do see a lot of stickers that people have had printed up and have seen several on the back of pickup trucks in this area. "Remember the 3 S's - Timberwolves, Shoot, Shovel, Shut up."

You don't hear a lot of people talking about it, but I believe that is the way it works up here? They just do it anyway and no one talks about?

There is also a pretty poor attitude towards the MN DNR in northern, MN. I don't think that helps peoples feelings towards timberwolves and they way the DNR decides to manage them.

Matt
 
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Hey, far more dogs and kids are killed by cars than wolves. Lets kill everyone who drives a car. Whoever thought of introducing cars to the UP? Fawkin' cars.
 
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