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regearing a 60 for bigger tires.

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by reece, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. reece

    reece

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    ok. i was running 31x10.5 bfg a/t's on my 60 with the stock suspension. just put a 2.5" bds on, and the things look dinky. been contemplating 33x10.5 or 33x9.5's.

    i've seen a lot of chatter about re-gearing to help going up hills. as i frequently live in areas where hills are the standard. i've definitely noticed some slow-going.

    so, could someone either point me in the direction of a write-up of what is involved, and/or give me a brief explanation - plus, is this something that would be relatively easy to do myself?
     
  2. Cruiserdrew

    Cruiserdrew SILVER Star

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    The easy way and likely the cheap way too is to swap complete differentials. I swapped '78 differentials into my '84 FJ60 and it feels just right with 33's. You could buy new gearsets(roughly $200 each) from several sources, but then you need a bearing kit($125 each) and someone to set up the gears($150 each). That gets expensive fast. That assumes you pull the diffs yourself. If a shop does it, get out your wallet.

    If you want to swap gears, basically any 4.11 set from a Cruiser from 70 onward will work. The '78 set is desirable, because it is 4.11 and has a fine spline pinion, and the proper driveshaft flange for '84 and earlier FJ60. If your 60 is '85 or later, use the differentials from an FJ62. These are 4.11, fine spline and have the proper driveshaft flange pattern. This is a very worthwhile project and makes the truck much more drivable. I ran the 3.73 diffs with 33's for several months and did not like it. You should be able to buy the diffs pretty cheap-I got mine for $50 each. I've seen them $50-250 for a complete set-up diff.
     
  3. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    Swap out the diffs to ones that have 4:11 ratio...

    "plus, is this something that would be relatively easy to do myself? "

    Completly depends on your mechanical ability or inability...

    A factory service manual would cover EVERYTHING that you are going to need to know about this swap..

    The rear is not that big of a deal, drain gear oil, remove rear cover, remove cross shaft retaining bolt, cross shaft, and spacer block. Tap axle shafts inboared to give c-clips room to drop off. Pull the axle shafts out, (would be best, to have removed the tires by now), remove the four bolts that hold the rear drive shaft on, and remove the nuts holding the diff into the housing, and then knock the third member/diff out. After cleaning and inspecting everything from axle seals to brakes and ujoints, put everything back together in reverse order, installing the needed new gaskets and seals..


    Front has more pieces involved, as the whole front axle needs to be taken apart, minus the knuckles, but since you are in there, if these are leaking, now is a great time to do a front end ectomy, and replace the knuckle bearings, and all seals and gaskets here along with what is needed to install the new diff.

    Tires off, remove lockouts, hub/rotor, after removing the calipers and wheel bearing nuts, remove the spindle, get a drain tub ready, as grease/gear oil may/will drain out here, and make a mess, remove the axle shafts, remove bolts secureing the driveshaft to the diff, and remove the nuts on the diff studs holding the diff into the front axle, and remove the front third member/diff.

    Get the factory book if you do not have it...FAR AND AWAY better than anything else out there...

    Good luck!

    -Steve
     
  4. lovetoski

    lovetoski SILVER Star

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    Since this is America, where we tolerate different points of view...let me offer this perspcetive...I have an fj60,with 33X9.50's, a 4 speed, and 3.70 diffs...I would like to have a lower first gear, but otherwise wouldn't change anything. I live in Seattle, where hills are common, and use my truck as a DD. This includes quite a bit if freeway driving, including frequent trips into the mountains skiing. I had 31's for awhile, and the 33's are a better overall choice. I have a 2.5" MAF lift, and the 33's look much better to my eye than the 31's. Aestethics aside, for my driving style, the 33's are a winner. Small tradeoff on hills, but the huge torque of the 2F makes this OK. Freeway is a no-brainer - 33's w/3.70 rule.

    All that aside, if money was no object, in a heartbeat I would go for the H55 w/4.11's. Granny first for hills, plus long legs for the freeway.

    Doug Graham
     
  5. 60wag

    60wag SILVER Star

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    I've got 33x10.5s on my 60, 3.7 diffs. I agree with Doug in that they are very nice on the highway - %12 overdrive. My 2F was recently rebuilt with a head shave and a low restriction exhaust. It does pretty well even in the high mountains of Colorado. Offroad. I can't complain. I'd like to have a lower first gear but until an H55 or H41 falls in my lap, I'm keeping it the way it is.
     
  6. kling-on

    kling-on Kool Arrow

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    my 33 and 3.70 doesnt have the nuts to climb ledges off road and and i have to go down to 3rd to climb and grade/hll that over about 1\8 mile long freshend motor MSD and lots of power ... tosssing up the idea of 4.10 or 4.56 .... but if I had wanted good highway I would of gotin a FZJ80 .... so at least 4.10 with 33 it still and O/D from stock :cheers: good luck
     
  7. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    33x10.5(or 9.5's) and the 3.70's arn't all that bad, I ran my fj60 for a few years like that. I find the skinnier 33's don't suck as much power as a wide 33. With a lift I prefer the 33x10.5 vrs the 33x9.5. I did swap last year to 4.11 gears and it was certainly an improvment. The easiest swap will be to get the complete 3rd members from a 88-90 fj62, they are 4.10 and will bolt right up(you can prolly do this yourself) If you go with a ring and pinion swap then you "might" consider adding a locker to at least the rear, the install cost for the locker is almost nothing(more) when doing gears. If your asking the question, then you prolly can't or won't want to do a ring and pinion swap yourself.

    another thing that will make a BIG difference in power is the condition of your motor as far as power, I'll tell ya, after I rebuilt my stock carb I got a BUNCH more power. If you carb has never been touched I would suspect the secondary(2nd barrel) prolly isn't working.....and with it working it will sure help move 33's alot better even with the 3.70's....especialy up hills

    Cost wise, to swap in new(used) 3rd's from a fj62, prolly $400 for a pair of 3rds. then some seals, maybe bearings. Would be a good time to do a front axle overhaul.....if so add $$ If you go this route try to find a pair of front 3rd as they will prolly have less wear then a rear, might not have to replace the bearings this way

    to replace(you take whole rig to shop) the ring and pinions. Prolly $400 for a new pair of gears, then install kits $200(pair), labor to install $600ish(both ends) Toss in a locker in the rear, $200-800 depending on lockers(see I can't open up a diff and NOT install a locker, seem like a waste of money not to ;) Then there are the little things that allways turn up that add cost.

    Another option is to drop the 3rds yourself and have someone swap the gears, you will save a good bit on labor this way.

    IMOP before I did a gear change I would get the motor in the best state of tune you can, if the carb needs a rebuild then do so, cost $300ish. Then go to the 33's, if your not happy then re-gear.

    John H
     
  8. TJDIV

    TJDIV Back in The U.P.

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    [quote author=kling-on link=board=1;threadid=11844;start=msg108218#msg108218 date=1077378609]
    my 33 and 3.70 doesnt have the nuts to climb ledges off road and and i have to go down to 3rd to climb and grade/hll that over about 1\8 mile long freshend motor MSD and lots of power ... tosssing up the idea of 4.10 or 4.56 .... but if I had wanted good highway I would of gotin a FZJ80 .... so at least 4.10 with 33 it still and O/D from stock :cheers: good luck
    [/quote]

    I'm seeing things this way as well. I'm running (I believe) a 3:40 in my 40 with 33's; and I like it.

    I think we need to get an additional ICON next to our avatars that indicate whether or not we use our Cruisers as DD Hwy vehicles, or Off Road, Rock Molesting Ground Breakers.

    I'd stay with the gear you have now. Too often do we change one thing and immediately believe that we've laid the grounds for changing something else.
    Try it for a while. Haste makes...what....what..???
     
  9. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    3.40's?

    [quote author=TJDIV link=board=1;threadid=11844;start=msg108237#msg108237 date=1077381522]
    I'm seeing things this way as well. I'm running (I believe) a 3:40 in my 40 with 33's; and I like it.

    I think we need to get an additional ICON next to our avatars that indicate whether or not we use our Cruisers as DD Hwy vehicles, or Off Road, Rock Molesting Ground Breakers.

    I'd stay with the gear you have now. Too often do we change one thing and immediately believe that we've laid the grounds for changing something else.
    Try it for a while. Haste makes...what....what..???
    [/quote]
     
  10. 60wag

    60wag SILVER Star

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    I tow a light popup trailer for camping trips in Colorado. With the 31s, I could usually stay in 3rd gear except for particulaly steep climbs (on pavement) With the 33s, I've definitely had to drop to second gear more often. Kind of a bummer but you've GOT to be patient when towing anything with a 2F. Once the trailer is hapily parked somewhere, that extra inch of ground clearance is worth every car that blows past me on the interstate.
     
  11. Cruiserhaven

    Cruiserhaven

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    I ran 33x12.5's with the stock 3.73's and H42 4spd in my FJ60 for awhile and I found it to be agonizingly PAINFULL on hills. Old ladies in walkers were passing me.

    A really nice setup was 4.56's with the H55 5spd tranny. Decent gearing on the trail, hills, and highway. (Course that's not a cheap option either).
     
  12. devo

    devo

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    Ok since $$$ is not a problem. Keep the 3.70s and drop in a a V8 backed by a NV4500 and then you'll hiway and trail ride like no bodies
    business!!