Idaho Savage
GOLD Star
This would be my second choice. Not an A+ in deep snow but excellent in snow and ice in general, plus really tough in shale, gravel, etc.
Recommendations on stock tire, good AT & in deep snow (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter zakb1983
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You would be mis-directed.
the michelin defender stomps the asś of any AT I’ve tried in the snow. Including those with the (pointless) 3 peak. I skied Tahoe and Utah this winter a bunch and had many gnarly snow road days including going over highway in whiteout conditions. The michelins are better.
bloc
SILVER Star
Then that brings up a bigger question: why not get the cert?
ace10
Another one bites the dust!
You've now learned, in real time, why your research turned up what it did.
to boost x-ice sales?
why isn’t your LC “trail rated”?
Have you looked into the test required to get that badge? It’s a joke.
ace10
Another one bites the dust!
Now you're being silly.
The Heep thing is a marketing slogan. Absolutely nothing behind it.
3PMS is an industry standard. While it's not exactly a comprehensive test, it does carry weight, else a company like Michelin wouldn't put it on SOME of their tire models.
bloc
SILVER Star
If it's such a joke, and helps sell tires, why not test it? Michelin does so for other tires in their lineup.
I would agree. Seeing a cert on a tire (that the manu paid for) vs. solid user experience IN REAL WORLD USE / feedback on such boards as this is apples & oranges.
The OP wants stock size with good road quality, very good in snow. Many choices but probably three or so that are highly recommended (here).
“The requisite test to qualify for the 3PMSF mark is a spin test (ASTM F1805) that measures acceleration traction in medium-packed snow only. In that regard, Premium Traction tires guarantee a minimum level of traction in that very specific scenario. The 3PMSF mark makes no guarantee of braking or cornering traction in snow, and there is no ice component of the test.”
Google astm f1805, it’s a joke
ace10
Another one bites the dust!
Right. Which is why I wrote that "it's not a exactly comprehensive test."
You're still dodging the question of why Michelin would offer tires with the rating, if it's a "joke."
And it tests compared to a basic radial. Essentially virtually any AT would meet the standard if they pay to test. It is a disservice to consumers.
There should actually be a 10 star rating or similar, where only dedicated snow tires could achieve 8-10, and the very best ATs may get 5-7, and the test should be based on winter traction, including ice, light, medium and heavy tested.
Without a true standard, consumers are left in the dark, often taking advice from people with purchase confirmation, or those Mad folks that simply talk out of their ass.
I’m not dodging anything. The test is a joke, why would I care if my tire passed such a pointless test?
ace10
Another one bites the dust!
Agreed.
Consumers cannot even fully-rely on the UTGQ ratings.
A retailer like Tirerack offers a vast database of consumer ratings, however Tirerack doesn't sell all brands. Which makes comparisons of the entire segment impossible using their metrics.
Confirmation bias and group think make relying on "forum wisdom" very difficult.
Survey what's being said, but take it all with a grain of salt.
SQRRRL
SILVER Star
I run the Blizzak DMV2 in winter and Michelin AT2 summer. The Blizzak is an EPIC winter tire. They crush Montana winters.
Check out TIRESIZE.com. Good luck.
Check out TIRESIZE.com. Good luck.
I've driven dedicated snow tires, multiple tires with the 3PMS rating, and Defenders.
Defenders have easily outperformed the 3PMS rated tires in my experience. And I've driven many winter seasons on the east coast, PNW, and midwest.
If winter performance is that important, you're much better off with a dedicated snow tire.
Defenders have easily outperformed the 3PMS rated tires in my experience. And I've driven many winter seasons on the east coast, PNW, and midwest.
If winter performance is that important, you're much better off with a dedicated snow tire.
bloc
SILVER Star
I got curious.
In 285/60R18 on tirerack of the tires offered here are the "winter/snow" ratings 1-10 from customers for each tire
Defender 8.4 (good)
BFG Trail Terrain 8.2 (3-peak)
KO2 8.7 (3-peak)
General Grabber AT 8.7 (3-peak)
Toyo AT3 8.8 (excellent) (3-peak) (I concur with this rating)
Note that number of reviews for each tire vary significantly.
So at least some reviews show one 3-P tire being worse than the non-3-P defender. But those reviews also put other tires performing significantly better than the Defender LTX in winter conditions.
I found it interesting that what tirerack calls the OE tire for us, the bridgestone dueller D684, scores a 4.4 in winter/snow. Ouch.
I think @ace10 is on point about grains of salt. And that any of the tires with positive reviews on a broad scale will serve you well.
In 285/60R18 on tirerack of the tires offered here are the "winter/snow" ratings 1-10 from customers for each tire
Defender 8.4 (good)
BFG Trail Terrain 8.2 (3-peak)
KO2 8.7 (3-peak)
General Grabber AT 8.7 (3-peak)
Toyo AT3 8.8 (excellent) (3-peak) (I concur with this rating)
Note that number of reviews for each tire vary significantly.
So at least some reviews show one 3-P tire being worse than the non-3-P defender. But those reviews also put other tires performing significantly better than the Defender LTX in winter conditions.
I found it interesting that what tirerack calls the OE tire for us, the bridgestone dueller D684, scores a 4.4 in winter/snow. Ouch.
I think @ace10 is on point about grains of salt. And that any of the tires with positive reviews on a broad scale will serve you well.
I really like my Nitto Terra Grappler G2. They are great in wet. I live in Texas and spend quite a few highway miles in major down pours. They sale an LT in factory size and it has nice ride. At 80mph with radio at 8 volume I don't hear tires and can still talk with my wife. Sorry I have not tested them in Snow but they did great in Sand, some mild rock crawling and lot of back roads. I regularly tow a boat with no issues. I run them at 35lbs. Good luck with finding a tire.
Don't mean to be a contrarian but the NTG G2 is not a good winter tire.
I can say this as I had this tire 4 tires back, on my 100-series. This tire was developed over a decade ago with a G2 compound change in IIRC ~2013. Perhaps competitive in its day, but really doesn't compete to modern designs. Not a good tire for cold weather in my experience as the compound turns hard. It's why for every AT tire since, I've put a priority on having good snow and cold weather performance for my winter trips because I assumed at one point that all AT tires innately had that. I was wrong.
Falken AT3Ws and Toyo AT3s get my vote as great all weather and all terrain tires.
I also had, of all things, a set of Pro Comp ATii *gasp!* that were pretty darn great in the snow on the 80. No 3pms rating, but pro comp is a cheapy manufacturer and I'm sure they wouldn't spring for the testing anyway. Tread design was basically a Toyo knockoff. I'm actually thinking about putting another set on the LX (flamesuit)
