Recommendations on MODEST turbo for Toyota 5L? Goal is economy and reliability... (2 Viewers)

[drewgold]

Hello, as the title states, I'm wondering about possible modest turbo options for a Toyota Dyna truck with a 5L engine. (No EFI)

I have looked at a number of 'kits' that are on the market and all make way more power than I need or want. (That may sound crazy to some, I assume that these kits can be de-tuned but it seems to be a waste of money to pay for output that won't be used.)

Not sure if it's possible on these engines but my goal would be to improve fuel economy. My understanding is that the 3L and 5L engines are starved for air at WOT which creates a situation of un-burnt or poorly burnt fuel. The second goal is a MODEST increase in power. The engine is currently rated at 90hp and overall the truck runs well on the highway however I think about 100hp would make it much more ideal.

My questions are:

1. Is it even possible to improve fuel economy with a turbo on these engines or do they just get more thirsty?

2. What sort of PSI would yield a HP gain of 10-15hp

3. Are there any 'kits' out there to suit these needs or am I better off trying to do some sort of junkyard turbo setup?

4. Reliability/longevity is very important to me. Is this possible with a modest turbo setup?

Thank for any feedback!!

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Boost won't hurt your motor, it's too much fuel that will hurt it. Turboing and running around 10-12psi without touching fuel settings will probably achieve what you're looking for.

Turboing 5L motors has been discussed a number of times over the past few years, have a read through these threads for example:

Best turbo/ turbo specs for turboed 5l?

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[drewgold]

Thank you for your reply. I have read some of the threads about turboing 3L nd 5L engines, there's a lot to sift through so thank you for the links! Much appreciated.

Has there been any discussion about e-turbos? Not even sure if there's retail versions available yet but both BorgWarner and Garett have them listed on their websites. Interesting options. A full electronic compressor would save having to run all of the intake piping from the exhaust side of the engine.

 

[serenity]

Thank you for your reply. I have read some of the threads about turboing 3L nd 5L engines, there's a lot to sift through so thank you for the links! Much appreciated.

Has there been any discussion about e-turbos? Not even sure if there's retail versions available yet but both BorgWarner and Garett have them listed on their websites. Interesting options. A full electronic compressor would save having to run all of the intake piping from the exhaust side of the engine.

I would imagine the cost of an e-turbo would be far greater than a normal turbo. Piping is relatively easy to run, you can buy kits that include everything. To keep intake temps down and keep it reliable I would consider an intercooler too.

 

[drewgold]

I would imagine the cost of an e-turbo would be far greater than a normal turbo. Piping is relatively easy to run, you can buy kits that include everything. To keep intake temps down and keep it reliable I would consider an intercooler too.

Yeah, haven't been able to find any pricing but you are likely right, the cost may be prohibitive.

I should have also mentioned that I have an imported Toyota Dyna truck which is cabover so makes running piping more of a challenge. The biggest issue is that the shift linkage is in the way to run piping across the top of the engine.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Yeah, haven't been able to find any pricing but you are likely right, the cost may be prohibitive.

I should have also mentioned that I have an imported Toyota Dyna truck which is cabover so makes running piping more of a challenge. The biggest issue is that the shift linkage is in the way to run piping across the top of the engine.

I imagine a big draw-back of e-turbo is draw on the electrical system. Likely you'd have to upgrade your alternator significantly. It take a lot of energy to compress high volumes of air. I would think a traditional turbo would be more efficient also, as it's make use of spent exhaust gas energy that is already available.

Look at an air/water intercooler for your motor. They even came stock on 1KZTE in some vans. Then you only need to run small flexible heater hose to a intercooler radiator at the front of the vehicle. Intercooler is a great idea, but not totally necessary if you're running an efficient turbo at low boost with low fuel setting.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Are there any 'kits' out there to suit these needs or am I better off trying to do some sort of junkyard turbo setup?

A simple google search shows Berrima diesel, AXT, Turboglide and Denco diesel all make kits for the 3L/5L

 

[drewgold]

I know there’s many retailers online however nearly every one goes for max or aggressive power gains. Not many seem to offer modest kits that are closer to OE performance and not one of them have returned messages I have sent asking if they offer options for less boost and/or have an option to detune. Berrima advertises 40% gains and Denco claims more than 60% gains.

Not what I’m looking for.

 

[serenity]

A simple google search shows Berrima diesel, AXT, Turboglide and Denco diesel all make kits for the 3L/5L

Berrima

I know there’s many retailers online however nearly every one goes for max or aggressive power gains. Not many seem to offer modest kits that are closer to OE performance and not one of them have returned messages I have sent asking if they offer options for less boost and/or have an option to detune. Berrima advertises 40% gains and Denco claims more than 60% gains.

Not what I’m looking for.

Those power gains that are advertised by those companies assume you tune to suit. In a basic sense if you don’t touch your fuelling then you are just going to run lean and cool. It’s your fuel screw that determines how much extra power and heat is produced, you could bump your fuel up a fraction and see small power gains while maintaining reliability.

The main problems you see with these vehicles is people putting on turbo kits and winding the fuel screw all the way in.

 

[drewgold]

After a lot more reading I’m definitely leaning toward the advice of @GTSSportCoupe and @serenity and considering a turbo with stock fueling. A basic intercooler would be in the plans too due to my engine/cabover layout.

Any potential issues to running what would potentially be pretty lean fueling?

Also, this may be a stupid question, but are there any Toyota diesel guys running remote turbo setups? With the cabover design, I’m not super stoked to be literally sitting on a hot turbo in the middle of summer, I can also see benefits to moving all of that heat away from the engine. Just a thought...

 

[AussieHJCruza]

After a lot more reading I’m definitely leaning toward the advice of @GTSSportCoupe and @serenity and considering a turbo with stock fueling. A basic intercooler would be in the plans too due to my engine/cabover layout.

Any potential issues to running what would potentially be pretty lean fueling?

Also, this may be a stupid question, but are there any Toyota diesel guys running remote turbo setups? With the cabover design, I’m not super stoked to be literally sitting on a hot turbo in the middle of summer, I can also see benefits to moving all of that heat away from the engine. Just a thought...

A diesel isn't a petrol. Lean=Cool here.

 

[Feistl]

Lean is normal/fine. Rich is the issue...

Remote turbo is possible, just obviously adding complexity of oil return lines (probably needing a scavenge tank/pump).

not sure what skills you have, but in some regards a remote turbo setup could be cheap/easy to do. You can keep the stock exhaust manifold (making life easier), just need to weld on a flange for the turbo. You’ll need to make brackets so the turbo is bolted to the engine with a flexijoint after the dump pipe. I would be tempted to find a CT26 or similar (should be cheap to find). Depending on boost levels an inter cooler may not be required (if you’re running say 6psi).

 

[LN106]

Turbo Blanket would solve any heat issues. I wouldn't intercool unless you plan to up the fuel and boost. If it is 6 psi and and stock fueling I don't see see point.

 

[drewgold]

Lean is normal/fine. Rich is the issue...

Remote turbo is possible, just obviously adding complexity of oil return lines (probably needing a scavenge tank/pump).

not sure what skills you have, but in some regards a remote turbo setup could be cheap/easy to do. You can keep the stock exhaust manifold (making life easier), just need to weld on a flange for the turbo. You’ll need to make brackets so the turbo is bolted to the engine with a flexijoint after the dump pipe. I would be tempted to find a CT26 or similar (should be cheap to find). Depending on boost levels an inter cooler may not be required (if you’re running say 6psi).

What would the advantage of a CT26 turbo be over say a TD04L-13t? I'm trying to get up to speed in the world of turbos, lots of information to process! Thank you for your feedback.

 

[Feistl]

I can’t give you a specific answer on that (I’ll let the experts chime in).
I was only suggesting the CT26 as it’s the factory Toyota turbo on a bunch of different diesels. They are ultra reliable and suited for diesel use.
The turbo you mentioned is from a petrol engine so may not be ideal...

 

[serenity]

If you are running a custom turbo setup then go for a more modern and efficient turbo, the ct26 and its brethren are very old technology. I’d say the off the shelf kits for a 5L would run a better turbo than a ct.

 

[drewgold]

So many turbo options out there, it’s really hard to choose. (Especially with my lack of experience) Would the TD04L-13t be considered more modern? (I have seen a few kits that use this)
Denco uses a Schweitzer S1BG for their kit. AXT says they use a custom Garrett. A lot of others won’t specify or say they use an ‘in house developed turbo’ which to me sounds like another name for Chinese junk.

Most kits are designed around maximizing power output however. My goal is for modest power gains with an emphasis on fuel economy, reliability, drive-ability, and hauling a heavy camper. Also, having a slightly different engine layout due to the cabover means that many of the parts, piping, etc. from the kits won’t work for me.

I’m happy with the power output of the 5L about 85% of the time. The only time I find myself wanting more is climbing large hills/mountain passes on the highway and maintaining highway speeds with a strong headwind. Otherwise the truck ticks along just fine. I could care less about acceleration, it’s more about being able to maintain highway speeds better.

 

[LN106]

The Schweitzer S1BG is only oil cooled I believe. That could be better or worse.

SPA Turbo sells a manifold for the T25 flange. I saw them for sale for just over $200 USD shipped. I was going to go down that route with Garrett GT2052. I thnk that might be the cheapest route with the best turbo.

I ended up buying the DTS kit with the TD04. I think it is the same turbo used in the Pajero 4m40t.

 

[drewgold]

The Schweitzer S1BG is only oil cooled I believe. That could be better or worse.

SPA Turbo sells a manifold for the T25 flange. I saw them for sale for just over $200 USD shipped. I was going to go down that route with Garrett GT2052. I thnk that might be the cheapest route with the best turbo.

I ended up buying the DTS kit with the TD04. I think it is the same turbo used in the Pajero 4m40t.

Thanks for the info!

Sounds like a great deal for the manifold. Seems like there’s adapters out there to go from a T25 to TD04 as well so I guess that would be an option too.

As an aside, where do your coolant and oil lines tie in to the engine?