Rear Wheel Brake Cylinder Question. (1 Viewer)

[jas]

Hey there,
Just a Question about any other things that could cause the rear left hub on my hj60 to go stupid hot and smell like brake fluid,with the brake pedal having to be pumped 3-5 times to get it working every time i needed it.
When this has happened before i just checked bearings and replaced the Brake Cylinder assuming it was the piston/rubber thing that has gave up and it fixed it,when they are only 20$ for 1 it is easier to just replace imo.
So,can the cylinder lock the drum pads out on the drum to cause it to be super hot? and if so would there be anything else to cause the piston to be locked out etc?
hope i made sense in all this,thanks ahead.
Jas.

 

[EscapeWagon62]

The least likely culprit is the brake cylinder, when it fails it’s more likely to not engage the pads vs sticking in the extended position.
check:
1. Hand brake causing star wheel to over tighten (threads out there on that but easily fixed eth. 1/2 inch washer behind the adjuster arm pivot)
2. Worn springs not being strong enough to retract the shoes
3. E brake bell housing rusted causing it not to retract when e-brake is disengaged

 

[cps432]

I agree, I bet it’s your e-brake cable tightening.

 

[jas]

The least likely culprit is the brake cylinder, when it fails it’s more likely to not engage the pads vs sticking in the extended position.
check:
1. Hand brake causing star wheel to over tighten (threads out there on that but easily fixed eth. 1/2 inch washer behind the adjuster arm pivot)
2. Worn springs not being strong enough to retract the shoes
3. E brake bell housing rusted causing it not to retract when e-brake is disengaged

These answers make sense!...when i took the drum off the shoes were locked out that the arm with the star wheel on it was holding it out.
Which was hard to get it off,there was no brake fluid gone from the cup under the bonnet,and i am thinking the shoes just got stuck rubbing hence the heat and smell.
I will check all things you mentioned.

 

[jas]

update.

So!.....notice anything missing in the pic....

wow.how the heck is the star wheel crank guide thing not even there.i am an idiot.
The handbrake cable in pic is really loose as well and wont stay in the guide it sits in(keeps popping out).looks flogged as well.
And i think the main big spring may look a little worn and stretched?
For a start i need a new kit altogether,new springs and new guide parts etc.

 

[cps432]

update.View attachment 2662330
So!.....notice anything missing in the pic....

View attachment 2662331View attachment 2662333
wow.how the heck is the star wheel crank guide thing not even there.i am an idiot.
The handbrake cable in pic is really loose as well and wont stay in the guide it sits in(keeps popping out).looks flogged as well.
And i think the main big spring may look a little worn and stretched?
For a start i need a new kit altogether,new springs and new guide parts etc.

It’s good that you found that out now and not on the highway.

 

[EscapeWagon62]

Wow.
Good to catch it now.
Also - I’ve learned from experience to get OEM stuff when you replace your bits and pieces in drum brake systems.
Drums are old technology and logic would dictate that any old part would do.
This forum and my experience has taught me that the simpler the part, the less chance that the aftermarket will get it right.

I fought my rear drums (over tightening etc) and eventually found the fix with OEM and a half inch washer.

 

[jas]

Wow.
Good to catch it now.
Also - I’ve learned from experience to get OEM stuff when you replace your bits and pieces in drum brake systems.
Drums are old technology and logic would dictate that any old part would do.
This forum and my experience has taught me that the simpler the part, the less chance that the aftermarket will get it right.

I fought my rear drums (over tightening etc) and eventually found the fix with OEM and a half inch washer.

I will be looking into that for sure,and if possible,what is t he half inch washer thing you say?..i looked and cannot find.
Appreciate help.thanks

 

[EscapeWagon62]

Here you go
Post #44 shows the washer
Post #80 shows the adjuster arm you need.

rear brakes over adjusting.....

...themselves. pretty much it. had issues a few weeks ago. got home that day and noticed a heavy brake aroma from the rear. looking closer the wheels were quite hot and looking under showed lite whisps of smoke from the drums. pulled everything apart and other than being to tight everything...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[jas]

Here you go
Post #44 shows the washer
Post #80 shows the adjuster arm you need.

rear brakes over adjusting.....

...themselves. pretty much it. had issues a few weeks ago. got home that day and noticed a heavy brake aroma from the rear. looking closer the wheels were quite hot and looking under showed lite whisps of smoke from the drums. pulled everything apart and other than being to tight everything...

forum.ih8mud.com

Thank you!..

 

[jas]

ok,so if i was missing the star wheel/lock thing,and my fork/star wheel was out enough to push the shoes on the drum and stay there,

how did the star wheel/fork turn outwards? ...forgive me as i don`t get it.
All i am thinking is maybe i have the star thing/thread on the wrong side and it is winding up instead of back?

Thanks.

 

[EscapeWagon62]

Welcome to fun and games with drum brakes.
Mechanically they are simple...one hydraulic cylinder, some springs, retainers and an adjustment arm.
In reality, how all of these function together is quite complicated.
It’s like the old song “knee bone connected to the...thigh bone”
Having had issues in drum brakes before I’ve found it best to uninstall and carefully re-assemble correctly vs trying to figure out which component was the causal factor.

All that said, I hate when people respond and don’t answer the question that was asked so....In your case my hypothesis is that, in addition to the missing star wheel adjuster lever and the potential that your E-brake mechanism potentially wasn’t disengaging....your left side brake shoe wasn’t properly seated in the brake cylinder.

 

[jas]

Welcome to fun and games with drum brakes.
Mechanically they are simple...one hydraulic cylinder, some springs, retainers and an adjustment arm.
In reality, how all of these function together is quite complicated.
It’s like the old song “knee bone connected to the...thigh bone”
Having had issues in drum brakes before I’ve found it best to uninstall and carefully re-assemble correctly vs trying to figure out which component was the causal factor.

All that said, I hate when people respond and don’t answer the question that was asked so....In your case my hypothesis is that, in addition to the missing star wheel adjuster lever and the potential that your E-brake mechanism potentially wasn’t disengaging....your left side brake shoe wasn’t properly seated in the brake cylinder.

View attachment 2664790

allrighty then! thanks for the response!

 

[EscapeWagon62]

allrighty then! thanks for the response!

The good news is that you can be confident that you’ll get it sorted.
When I was fighting an over-tightening issue, I carried a cut off piece of clothes hangar and a flat head screw driver in my center console.
If I felt the brakes dragging, it got to the point where I could jump out, adjust the star wheel and hop back in in the duration of a red light.
Real confidence builder for my wife in the passenger seat

 

[jas]

The good news is that you can be confident that you’ll get it sorted.
When I was fighting an over-tightening issue, I carried a cut off piece of clothes hangar and a flat head screw driver in my center console.
If I felt the brakes dragging, it got to the point where I could jump out, adjust the star wheel and hop back in in the duration of a red light.
Real confidence builder for my wife in the passenger seat

Bloody good idea!..just looked through that other thread as well,good info indeed.
Thanks again.