Rear spring solution (1 Viewer)

[tgell001]

So the first outing went well in my new to me 86 SAS. I conquered a lot of Cove Campground at Ice Breakers this weekend.
Small issue popped up. I spent too much time redoing my front suspension and my rear was an utter failure. Nothing sidelined me but my shocks were pretty much done and I toasted my rear springs. About half way thru the day my shackles were just resting on the frame and subsequently I warped my springs pretty bad and the pinion angle is now pointing up instead of down.
No biggie, I was prepared to give the rear a once over before Spring Fling. But I'm split decision on doing the Trail Gear 4 or 5 inch rear lift springs or a Chevy 63" conversion with a full kit from sky off-road.

I can get out just narrowly cheaper going to 63" Chevy and that's with the new shock geometry and Ubolt flip. So there's value in that direction, but it's a lot more Fab work and I'm not 100% sold it's the end all be all for rear leafs

What do y'all think? Is the Chevy swap really all that?

 

[ntsqd]

I did the GM rears and it was the second best thing that I ever did to the truck. The first being going to Bilsteins. Granted I didn't crawl the truck, I Overlanded it and desert race-chased with it.

Factor in my vehement dislike for TG's owner and I think its a no-brainer.

 

[txlonghorn]

AP's leaf packs are a great alternative to TG.

 

[tgell001]

AP's leaf packs are a great alternative to TG.

alternative or better than? Because if I go longer springs I'm going to save the money and do chevy 63". I bet the Allpros are nice but they're in the middle of both solutions so I'm ruling that out.

Personally I have bought a lot of stuff for trucks over the years and trail gear has been rock solid quality and service wise. I dont know the owner but they have a good product from my experiences.

 

[Mudder]

The leag springs are crap from TG. All the guys stopped running them around where I live because they'd flatten out after a season of snow wheeling.

 

[tgell001]

The leag springs are crap from TG. All the guys stopped running them around where I live because they'd flatten out after a season of snow wheeling.

What is everyone running?

And, do most people running 63s run anti wrap bars?

 

[Mudder]

A lot of them have gone to either alcan or made their own leaf packs. One thing to remember with trail gear is that if they say it's a 3" lift it's close to a 4"

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Happy with my Chevys in the back!

 

[tgell001]

So I pulled the trigger and found a set of chevy leafs for $100. Only problem is they're the 4/1 set up. I've read a ton with no definitive answer. I was level front to rear previously with 3.5 inch lift rears. Which leaf should I remove to maintain similar lift, and good flex. I'm buying the SkyOffroad package with 5 inch shackles

Is there really that much variation? Is that why there's no definitive answer? I under stand trial and error is afoot, but I want to know what others have done. I pulled the bottom leaf from my front spring and now I can't keep clamps attached haha so im hoping the bottom isn't the one I should remove

 

[ntsqd]

Put them in as-is and drive it a little. Then you'll know better what leaf(ves) to remove. The shorter a leaf is, the stiffer it is.

 

[GRM]

On my old 4Runner I had a 5+1 setup, with made me even with the ome front springs.

Depending on the weight out back, I recommend running a thicker pack

 

[tgell001]

Well this ended up being a moot point. Sent my wife to my buddies shop to get an inspection and called him up and said "hey, throw those springs in my wifes car while shes there and save me a trip". I go out to unload them and they're the 3/1 set up, I have the Barnes 63" chevy swap kit on the way with 6" shackles (heard good things about barnes from a buddy and the kit was $60 cheaper than sky and ruff stuff). I have four 2" blocks left over from the previous set so I think I can manipulate height with this set up to make it work with what I have. I just really dont want to use blocks since I'm 90% sure thats why my axle wrap was bad enough to destroy my springs in one outing. (really gnarly outing, but still).

 

[ntsqd]

Put it together w/o the blocks. Blocks are evil and should be banished from the earth. Worst case it doesn't sit right and then you'll know what you need.

FWIW I always run the under-ride load leafs, but flipped upside down. Keeps the spring pack from kinking on the spring perch and gives the springs a nice radiused surface to lay down onto when pushed past flat. Can drill the rear tips to bolt on the "traction straps" like the OEM yota springs have to control spring wrap and/or can drill the front tips to install a bump-stop to create a "slapper traction bar" like old school drag racers used. Drill 'em on both ends while its all apart, and then see if either or both wrap control methods are needed.

 

[tgell001]

I'm going to start reading about all of those things. I've been reading a ton and none of that is mentioned anywhere. About the only thing I ready was using the overload cut flush in the rear with the perch and leave 8inches in the front. But I can see how a bump stop would work but limit travel. I'm really never heard if "traction straps"

Should mention my overloads are like 1inch think and flat, they're not curved at all. I think so are like that (maybe not)

 

[GRM]

The 63" overloads will keep your spring from inverting, and breaking. Don't remove it.

It also eliminates the need for a bumpstop.

 

[tgell001]

This forum is so much better than pirate haha.

I'm worried about the overload being a rock catcher. Any thoughts on that?

 

[tgell001]

Put it together w/o the blocks. Blocks are evil and should be banished from the earth. Worst case it doesn't sit right and then you'll know what you need.

FWIW I always run the under-ride load leafs, but flipped upside down. Keeps the spring pack from kinking on the spring perch and gives the springs a nice radiused surface to lay down onto when pushed past flat. Can drill the rear tips to bolt on the "traction straps" like the OEM yota springs have to control spring wrap and/or can drill the front tips to install a bump-stop to create a "slapper traction bar" like old school drag racers used. Drill 'em on both ends while its all apart, and then see if either or both wrap control methods are needed.

Can you provide a link to a picture of "traction straps". My searches are coming up empty

 

[ntsqd]

I don't have one, but all that is needed is to look at a set of OEM yota rear springs. The OEM over-load leaf has a "Keeper" on it at the rear. My '84 Xcab's (aka "Patch") did anyway. Only there is little need for such a thing. No other OEM has them on their over-load leaves. What the keeper does do is when the spring wraps up the cross-bolt of the keeper comes down to bear on the top of the main leaf. Instant wrap limiting traction bar. I've watched stock springs do this.

Usually the over-loads will be flat to maybe curved upwards on the top, but most all (can't think of an exception but there probably is one) are curved upwards on the bottom. Meaning that they are tapered from thick(er) at the center to thinn(ner) at the tips, but the taper is all on one side. Flipping these upside down takes them out of play as a spring and eliminates the buck-board ride, but keeps the working leaves from being kinked on the perch. Reversing the arch of a leaf spring is one of the worst things that you can do to it, but not occasionally inverting them leaves wheel travel on the table. With an inverted over-load you won't get the max possible wheel travel, but you also will limit how much bad you can do to the leaf springs. The difference is in the 1% possible need range for me and I don't worry about those - there's enough other stuff more needing of my time.

I would be willing to cut one of the spring's leaves, usually to taper the tips, to fine-tune the spring rate, but cutting the over-load just turns it into a lift block and creates a sharp edge for the spring to kink on. One of the dumbest bits of advice I've seen about springs. In 10+ years of running Patch with the 63's with flipped over-loads I never, ever came close to hanging them up on a rock. Never heard of someone hanging up the stock over-loads on a rock. I'm sure it can be done, but again I don't worry about what for me would be one of the 1% possibilities.

I spell it "POoR" for a reason. Don't get me started.....

 

[tgell001]

Ah, I see what you're talking about now. that would have kept my pinion angle from pointing towards the sky like its in Sunday mass and bending my springs into a "w". That's easy enough to make too, pretty sure I have everything needed laying around.

I'm for sure going for longevity on this thing. I want it to be a cheap and capable toy to follow my buddies and watch them break their 1ton JKs.

Side note, what geometry did you do for shocks? I'm torn between vertical and /\ style

 

[ntsqd]

I ran them from the backside of the round tube cross-member to the back-side of the axle housing as close to the springs as I could get them. I do have a pic of that: