Real Time Help - Truck stalling (1 Viewer)

[jaxonm]

All, I need your help...

I finally got my 60 back together enough to drive today. It's been disassembled for body, paint and interior for the last few months. During this time no mechanical work was done, and it has been starting up and rolling around the yard in various states of assembly quite well! Aside from the occasional dead battery. The only mechanical thing I change during this time was relocating the fuel expansion chamber in the right/rear quarter panel.


So, here is what happened.

• Got the truck together this afternoon
• Decided to bring it home from my parents (about a 20 minute drive)
• Stopped to top off the fuel on the way
• The 60 ran GREAT for the 15 minutes or so, then...
• Taking off from a stoplight the motor fell completely flat and stalled.
• Started up easily, but stalled again in just seconds.
• Motor runs but only at full throttle

I was able to nurse it the last could miles home, thankfully it is mostly downhill. Again, the truck ran really well right up to that point, it starts but then dies immediately unless I am hard on the throttle.


The fuel filter is full, and it seems to be getting spark. Although, under load it feels like it is missing bad.


Thoughts? Where to start?


HELP!


Thanks guys.

 

[KWalkerM]

timing of your dissy, fuel pump pressure, check your carb. something may have come loose during reinstall, check your fuel lines etc. others may have bettter ideas. i runs a 350 and had a 62 before so idk.

 

[jaxonm]

OK, this is getting weirder.

I started the day by doing a complete once over;

•*complete visual inspection
•*checked all the fuses
•*verified that the fuel filter is clean and full
•*air cleaner looks good and no blockages in the air intake
•*cap and rotor look good
•*no obvious electrical connections broken
•*all vacuum hoses in place and nothing obviously broken
•*gas cap in place and expansion chamber in place
•*battery fully charged, and I kept it on a trickle charger throughout all my tests

So, after each thing I checked, I tested by attempting to start and run the truck. No luck, all day. At the end of the day just as I was about to give up I decided to give it one more shot... Started & ran. I let it idle for several minutes and let it warm up. Since it didn't choke I drove it down the street and not 200 yards down, it happened again. Stuttered and stalled.

Here are the symptoms again;
•*Crank it and it fires up immediately
•*Within 3-5 seconds it starts to stutter and is dead within a second or two after.
•*In the 3-5 seconds that it runs, it sounds perfect. No backfiring, no hesitations, sounds just like it should. Then it dies.
•*It smells like it is running VERY rich.

I'm thinking that it could be, in order of gut feeling and inverse order of my ability to diagnose...
• Electrical issue (relay, igniter, coil, etc)
•*Fuel issue (carb issue, pump, something in the tank?)
•*Malfunction in the vacuum system
•*Malfunction in the smog system

I just don't know where to go from here. Any thoughts?

 

[Spike Strip]

Just spit-balling here... Did you check the ICS?

And since you messed with the evap system, try running with the gas cap off and see what happens.

 

[jaxonm]

Thanks Spike! I knew it would be you or Mark that jumps in to help me out...

I have not tested yet but this gives me something for a next step.

Will report back when I have time to take a look, in the mean time, any other suggestions are well appreciated.

 

[jaxonm]

Another odd thing just popped up...

So, this morning before work I went in and threw parts in the back of the 60. When I was there I checked my battery charger and a few other things. I threw the key in the ignition and noticed (truck has not been run in a day and a half) that the temp gauge went straight to the top!! I've never seen this behavior before. Motor was not running and again, hasn't run in about 36 hours. So, maybe my issue is electrical?

Also, Spike. I thought I could figure it out on my own by doing searches... What does ICS stand for?

I'm thinking I may just need to send this thing in to get this resolved. May be above my pay grade.

Anyone?

 

[gregnash]

Think the ICS is the same as the fuel cut solenoid, but dont quote me on that..
When the truck does start up you are seeing gas in the sight glass for the carb fuel bowl yes?

Has there been any electrical work done recently? I remember ready about something similar with the temp gauge if the new temp sensor is installed improperly, or something to that sort.

To me it seems more like a fuel starvation issue but I am a complete newbie at this. If you choke it and start her up and drive her choked does that change anything?

 

[Spike Strip]

ICS=Idle Control Solenoid=Fuel Cut Solenoid. Something to check if it's stalling. There's a bunch of threads on it... There's also the Engine Fuse in the fuse panel that protects that circuit. Check that, too.

There's a single wire to the Temperature sender on the head, near the union for the hose that goes to the heater valve. If your gauge is pegging when you turn the key on, it means the wire is grounding, or I suppose the sender could be bad. I've seen that wire melt on the air injection manifold, before... Are the other gauges doing anything weird ?

Fuel in the float-bowl window is about half-way?

 

[jaxonm]

Huh, wondering what the acronym is then.

No electrical done recently, unless you count pulling out an old hacked in trailer wiring harness. The other thing I've done recently would be to reinstall the dash safety cap and instrument cluster. But no modifications were made to any wiring harness in that process.

It does feel like fuel to me too... But at this point I'm just not sure.

 

[jaxonm]

AHHHH, thanks Spike!

Will verify fuel sight tonight.

I did replace my choke cable, which was on the melted side. I just assumed it was old, but maybe something is happening under the air cleaner that is causing excessive heat. I think I will pull that apart and take a look.

Thanks for the direction guys!!

 

[Pacer]

No luck pulling the gas cap off? I'm with Spike Strip on this. Got to be the last thing that was altered.

Could you try an alternate fuel source? Say, fuel line form a five gallon gas can to the fuel pump.

 

[gregnash]

If you recently moved the cluster there is a chance you could have mistakenly moved something.

 

[jaxonm]

Game plan as it stands now:

•*Pull the air cleaner assembly off entirely, and see whats going on underneath. Based on the condition of my choke cable, and how quickly and recently that failed, there may be something under there (rats nest?) that is causing excessive heat. might also be causing my temp gauge issue.
•*I picked up a bag of fresh fuses on the way to work this morning. I'm going to replace all of them (my '82 has glass fuses), good or not, just to be sure I don't have a partially blown or high resistance fuse.
•*once those are clear, I'll pull the gas cap and try to run the truck to verify the fuel level through the carb sight glass.
•*if it is indeed starving, I'll pull the fuel line before the filter and drop it in a 5 gallon can and try again.

If all that fails I will work on doing the ICS diagnosis.

Beyond that... Who knows.

 

[jaxonm]

And to Greg's point, I'll pull the cluster back out to verify connections. But all the connections in my cluster have unique connections. But I'll do it to verify that all connections are tight.

 

[jaxonm]

Probelem Persists

Ok, I finally got the opportunity to run through my checklist. Unfortunately, nothing has worked yet.

I did find that Spike was right, the temp sender wire had indeed shorted causing the temp gauge issue. I also verified that the carb is getting fuel, and that the sight glass is right at 1/2. Also installed a complete set of new fuses and reseated all the instrument cluster plugs, just to be safe.

When I started the truck, it seemed to run good. Let it idle for a bit then drove it down the street and the issue kicked back in.

Once I got it home I recorded this video;

First 2 starts, the choke is on and I am not manipulating the throttle in any way.
Second 2 starts, the choke is off and I am not manipulating the throttle in any way.
After that the camera comes inside so you can see whats going on. Choke off start, then a choke on start. I can keep it running by manipulating the throttle. I think what is most interesting is @ 1:30 where I find a sweet spot in the throttle and the engine cycles up and down. But honestly I'm not sure what, if anything, any of this means.

Also, you can see in the below picture that a modification to the ICS has already been done. This was done by "a reputable landcruiser shop in the SFV" off of Canoga. So, I am very confused as to how/why one would make these modifications. There is apparently a "white wire mod" as well as a "green wire mod" and I am not sure which is which at this point.

One other clue that may help diagnose, is the fact that during the time the above video was taken, the truck smelled VERY rich.

Thoughts? Considerations? Best guesses? Advice on what to check next? If I don't get this solved this weekend, I may have to send it in to get this resolved.

Photo:

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqyw_hKJk7Q

Thanks all!

 

[Spike Strip]

Can't really tell if that tap is on the white or green wire. Should be a tap to the white wire then directly to ground. Green wire is 12v so it may be a power tap for something else, if it's to the green wire... Richard did this ?

Sounds like you've got an exhaust leak, too, if you didn't already know...

 

[jaxonm]

Yup Richard. Yup exhaust leak. And yup, the tap is on the green and goes to ground. It is, however, on the opposite side of the connector from where you did your white wire to ground. Not that that would make a difference, 12v is 12v.

I'm thinking I may just have this thing sent to him on Monday. I'm kinda at a loss.

 

[Spike Strip]

To bypass the Emissions computer for the ICS the WHITE wire needs to be grounded. Not the green. The "computer" controls the ICS thru ground.

Richard obviously knows what he's doing, but indeed if it's green wire to ground, that is not correct. That is just shorting the circuit. Think about it: 12v+ (green wire) straight to ground ?

Did that get hooked back up properly after all the work you did? That 12v tap may have been if you were not getting power to the ICS, then it might have gone to a Key On power source ?

Connector side, as surmised, doesn't matter.

 

[jaxonm]

More Pics

I didn't alter anything in the engine compartment other than the choke cable and now, the temp sender wire. Everything else is as before paint and body. Thats the weird thing, was running great from Agoura to Topanga Canyon Blvd, then it just fell on its face. Something changed, or some part broke/wore out.

Here are a couple better pics of the mod that Richard made last time it was there...

In the first pic you can see that it is the green wire that has the tap on it, the "white" wire (mostly just grimy) just goes through the cage of the scotch tap;

Slightly different angle;

In this pic, you can see the yellow wire that was tapped into the green, going to ground. I clearly need to break out the volt meter and start checking things in here.

 

[hj 60]

If you smell gas that could be the choke (less air=more fuel), are you sure it is ok, or can you remove the choke for a test?
Idle with choke=ok, warms up with choke =bad?

did you check if one or more plugs are giving a spark when the engine shuts off? are they also rich on fuel/black?

So is the engine shutting down because of no spark, no air, no fuel, ... or too much air, too much fuel?
What is that wire stuff, if you shorted something what is it, what is next in that circuit that would melt?

And are you sure the hoses are ok: so no air leak somewere (maybe check with some soap or something better than just the eye?)