Ready for mods to my 60 (1 Viewer)

Kavik

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Before I get flamed here for newb type questions...I searched and lurked for a long time.

Here goes...

85 FJ60 - Rig has good running 2f, 33x10.5x15 BFG MT's, 2.5" backspace wheels, MAF long add-a-leafs, generic shocks, open diffs, 3.70 stock gears. Not a daily driver. But I don't want to thrash it either.

Here's the issues-

1 - I'm getting to the point on my wheeling trips where I'm wishing I had sliders and corner protection.

2 - The add-a-leafs are really bouncy on the street (maybe just need new shocks). Ironically, with the add-a-leafs, the truck rides and flexes great off road. Back on the pavement, covered wagon. The bouncy ride is my excuse to go SOA(I've read and considered every pro and con out there) to soften and flatten out the pack. Can't go too tall(my daughters need to get in/out).

3 - I suspect my clutch and motor would be much happier w/ 4.56 gears, and while I'm in there, Aussie locker:D

4 - My front end needs rebuilding. 295K miles. No doubt it's due. Mild death wobble and occasional funny noise from the knuckles. Like I said it's due.

5 - I'd really like to eventually end up on 35's or 37's

So here's the reality-

I only get to pick one of the above issues to address per season(budget/time). I would do all of the fab and assembly myself. Budget is~$1000. And here's how I'd do it...

1- buy and/or borrow bender/saw/welder/chopsaw/etc, fab up sliders, bumpers, roof rack, spare tire carrier, etc. I can easily recoup the $ by making stuff for my bro's rigs, but use up alot of time.

2 - Fab up the lowest lift SOA in existence. Get hi-steer(see #4), French in spring/shackle mounts (shackle reversal). Basically move all of the mounts up into the frame 2-3". Stock spring packs w/ enough stock leaves removed to use my long add-a-leaves for max travel and to fight sacking out the stock pack. Trac-bar if neccesary. New long travel shocks/mounts. I'm talking 4" lift over stock at the most. Min lift/max droop. Cool, but no $$$ for tires (33's might be too small).

3- New gears, simple enough. My bro has the exp/tools to set up the diff. Just need good advice what brand and where to buy. Will rebuild the front axle/knuckes at the same time(see #4). I've only had to back down a obstacle couple of times ever(open diffs). A locker in this truck would rule. Great option, but I see even more body damage after this mod.

4 - Full axle rebuild, gaskets, bearings, wipers, seals, etc. Here's the trick: Can I install Marlin Hi-steer on a spring under? I'm not buying new 60 tie rod ends only to replace them w/ the superior 80 ends in the Marlin hi-steer kit. Then, I would be ready for #2, but pretty boring result.


5 - Meats...Obviously I would have to complete: #2 to fit them, #3 to turn them, #4 not to compound the pending doom hiding in my front axle. But, sooner or later I gotta have 'em.:D

It may seem obvious to you guys, but I can't decide. Granted, I have to rebuild the front end regardless. I'd just like to open it up once.

One lottery ticket could make this a moot post. But till then, I'd like to get some constructive suggestions from the fellas...Thanks
 
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To some degree probably we all struggle with issues like you've posed...here's what I'd do:
I always do mechanical repairs before improvements. Hence, I'd rebuild the front axle first. I'd do the armor next. Then the Aussie, SOA last. Ya, you'll have to go into the front axle twice, but it's way faster the second time.
 
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#4 first with #3 if possible

#2 & #5 all really go together, but you could run your 33's on a low SOA and it would look/work fine.

Then #1
 

CSA

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How about the following: 4.11 thirds from Cruiserparts.net, front axle rebuild kit from Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters, Ausssie Locker, and fab the sliders? It bet all of that is within your phase one budget.
 

Kavik

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Anyone running hi-steer SUA? If so, how much lift?
 
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Kavik said:
1 - I'm getting to the point on my wheeling trips where I'm wishing I had sliders and corner protection.

2 - The add-a-leafs are really bouncy on the street (maybe just need new shocks). Ironically, with the add-a-leafs, the truck rides and flexes great off road. Back on the pavement, covered wagon. The bouncy ride is my excuse to go SOA(I've read and considered every pro and con out there) to soften and flatten out the pack. Can't go too tall(my daughters need to get in/out).
Probably your shocks to be honest. How old are they? If you plan on doing some form of lift I would just wait until you do that. More on this below.

Kavik said:
4 - My front end needs rebuilding. 295K miles. No doubt it's due. Mild death wobble and occasional funny noise from the knuckles. Like I said it's due.
Do this, probably cost you $400 in parts from what I have been told for a complete rebuild.

Kavik said:
5 - I'd really like to eventually end up on 35's or 37's
I dont think this is possible lookng down at # 2 below. maybe 35's but no way 37's unless you want to trim a ton! And didnt think you wanted to do that b/c you dont want to butcher up the rig. More on all this below.

Kavik said:
So here's the reality-

I only get to pick one of the above issues to address per season(budget/time). I would do all of the fab and assembly myself. Budget is~$1000. And here's how I'd do it...

1- buy and/or borrow bender/saw/welder/chopsaw/etc, fab up sliders, bumpers, roof rack, spare tire carrier, etc. I can easily recoup the $ by making stuff for my bro's rigs, but use up alot of time.

2 - Fab up the lowest lift SOA in existence. Get hi-steer(see #4), French in spring/shackle mounts (shackle reversal). Basically move all of the mounts up into the frame 2-3". Stock spring packs w/ enough stock leaves removed to use my long add-a-leaves for max travel and to fight sacking out the stock pack. Trac-bar if neccesary. New long travel shocks/mounts. I'm talking 4" lift over stock at the most. Min lift/max droop. Cool, but no $$$ for tires (33's might be too small).

3- New gears, simple enough. My bro has the exp/tools to set up the diff. Just need good advice what brand and where to buy. Will rebuild the front axle/knuckes at the same time(see #4). I've only had to back down a obstacle couple of times ever(open diffs). A locker in this truck would rule. Great option, but I see even more body damage after this mod.

4 - Full axle rebuild, gaskets, bearings, wipers, seals, etc. Here's the trick: Can I install Marlin Hi-steer on a spring under? I'm not buying new 60 tie rod ends only to replace them w/ the superior 80 ends in the Marlin hi-steer kit. Then, I would be ready for #2, but pretty boring result.


5 - Meats...Obviously I would have to complete: #2 to fit them, #3 to turn them, #4 not to compound the pending doom hiding in my front axle. But, sooner or later I gotta have 'em.:D

It may seem obvious to you guys, but I can't decide. Granted, I have to rebuild the front end regardless. I'd just like to open it up once.

One lottery ticket could make this a moot post. But till then, I'd like to get some constructive suggestions from the fellas...Thanks
Again what do you want to do with this truck? Sounds like you want to just 4x4 with it, but dont want to mess it up. If you lift it and put 35's and a locker in it. I dont care what kind of protection you have, its going to get dents and scratches. You will be able to get into things that almost require body damage.

Yes the sliders and or rear bumper will help somewhat, but its going to happen, if you are going to go that hard core.

I would 1st- rebuild the front axle. You do need to decide what you are going to do with the lift. See below on that.

Lift- how old are your kids? and do they ride in the cruiser much? - Thats alot of unnec. work to move mounts up, etc. If you only want 4" then go OME and a SR or Alcan route. I am also not conviced that your bouncing will be fixed by a SOA, if its not your shocks. I dont know much about add-a-leafs, but what i have heard hasnt always been good. So you might need to research them a little further.

SOA - most everyone needs the trackbar, but if you have skills to do the SOA it shouldnt be bad to do the bar. And are you sure you want SOA?

Gear swap - Just be sure to check with what gears you really need. First you need to decide what size tires you are going to run. Then if you are going to stick with the 4spd. Then if you are looking to gear from offroad use or highway use. Withh all that being said it could be several diff sets of gears.

For $1000, you ought to be able to do the axle rebuild and the SOA. Do you have stock rims? If not then you could prob get tires too if you dont mind buying a used set to get you by for a year or so.
(the set I have, I found on a J**p board for $75 for the set! 33 BFG MT, and I have seen severl sets of 35's for $150 or less around. Just be sure to check hom much tread. The set I bought have about 70%!)
If you need new rims (you will need at least a 8" wide) then if will bump the price somewhat. From $100-$400+.

I really doubt you han get sliders and all even if you make them for under $1K and do the SOA and rebuild.


I hope all this helps!
 
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No way you're going to pull off 4" from a SOA, the axle alone is 4". Factor at least 6".

With a low budget, I wouldn't advocate a SOA, you want to learn to wheel the crap out of that truck with just a spring lift. If you find yourself wanting more later, go for it.

Sliders and a rear locker go a LONG way to wheeling a 60 series, and it's going to be on the cheap side if you do everything yourself. 33" tires will provide a lot of fun and capability.
 

Kavik

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Current setup:


picture(s) says a 1000 words...






vid 1

vid 2

By the way- I'm not afraid of too much body damage, rather keeping expensive to replace tail lenses/etc safe...
 
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looks like you are doing well with what you have.

I also dig your rims. What type are they? as I am in the market.

Do you have the skills btwn you and your bro to do a SOA? If you do and just want a little more lift why not go with a SR and extended rear shackles. Should give you about 1.5". Wont be too much where your girls cant get in, but also give you an idea on the size you want to be etc. I doubt you could run 35's but I think that going up to 35's may put it too high for them to get in. Also, if you stick with 33's you dont have to worry about regearing, or you could go with some fj62 thirds with the 4.11's. Also, if the SR doesnt do it for you do a small BL. 1-1.5" Then you should be able to clear 35's.

Sounds like you want to/need to go with the protection 1st. Sliders, rear bumper with 1/4 panel protection. You can do tons of things if you have the abilities to make/fab things.

If you do go that route you ought to be able to afford the rear locker (as long as you dont go ARB or 80 series electric).

Biggest thing is figuring out what you want to do for the lift. b/f you go tearing into the axles.

again sweet looking rig and hope my little girl will be able to go with me once she gets old enough.

Also, very nice wheeling pics. Where are you located?
 

Kavik

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Thanks to every one for the input.

The truck gets around fine, but I hate the way the shackles (f&r) get hung up on everything. And it's a long truck, plenty of places to bang up. Although, it might just be me, wheeling it in the rocks like a bull in a china shop:doh:

The body is fairly straight, but I don't intend to keep it perfect. It's already got a little rust and rash.

Hey 'rule- those are US Wheel d-windows. 15x8 with custom ordered 2.5" of backspace. I lucked out at a local shop. They were just sitting there for months (some tool never picked them up). I snagged them for $40 a piece, unpainted! Took em home and Krylon'd them like you see them.

My daughters and I load up the rig and do day trips to Sycamore/Four Peaks area NE of Phoenix. We're looking forward to some overnights now that the weather has cooled off.

Back on topic.

I'd like get the truck up a little higher, reduce the amount of crap hanging off the axles, gear it (anybody got those 4.56's for sale?), and lock it.

The more scenarios I run through my head, the more spare/half used parts end up in my garage over time.

The shocks are old, but do I spend a couple hundred bucks replacing them or wait to set up the long travels? See my quandry?

I know what you are thinking...shut up and wheel.

We have so much damn fun already. But, I've got the itch, man, bad. The itch that keeps you looking through the classified for a good set of used 37 mtr's. It's a sickness, man, and I've got it.

So, thanks again for the feedback.

How about good sources for this stuff? gears, lockers, shocks, rebuid kits, bushings, etc...
Kurt?
Marlin?
Man-a-fre?
SOR?

Let's hear it...
 
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Kavik said:
Back on topic.

I'd like get the truck up a little higher, reduce the amount of crap hanging off the axles, gear it (anybody got those 4.56's for sale?), and lock it.

The more scenarios I run through my head, the more spare/half used parts end up in my garage over time.

The shocks are old, but do I spend a couple hundred bucks replacing them or wait to set up the long travels? See my quandry?

I know what you are thinking...shut up and wheel.

We have so much damn fun already. But, I've got the itch, man, bad. The itch that keeps you looking through the classified for a good set of used 37 mtr's. It's a sickness, man, and I've got it.

So, thanks again for the feedback.

How about good sources for this stuff? gears, lockers, shocks, rebuid kits, bushings, etc...
Kurt?
Marlin?
Man-a-fre?
SOR?

Let's hear it...
thanks for the info on the rims. I have heard of people ording those from Summit racing for under $30 ea. + shipping. I might have to go that route. Krylon hold up ok? I know powder coat would be best, but i dont want to spend a ton on cheap steel rims.

Axle rebuild partts can be had from Cruiser outfiters. (I think thats kurt?)

Lockers, I would go Ausie locker. Unless you want to go full locker then just licon lock it.

Shocks - depends on what you want to go with. I am prob going to go with Doetsh Tech 8000. (I have a 4" alcan I have been collecting parts for.) I hav e heard they are decent. And they are cheap like $35 each @ summit racing. I would love to have OME or bilstein, but $ wise I can do it!

Bushings - just be sure to get poly. And if they have one better than the other go for it. It wont be that much more $.

Tires- you have the idea. Go used. Can save a ton of $ that way. Dont be afraid to check j**p boards. The closer the better b/c shipping will kill your deal! You sure you want 37's? I mean yeah you can say I got 37's on my fj60. But functionality? And the height issue, etc. ? I would stay with 35's max mainly b/c of your kids and lift options.

Lift - again, how much is a little higher? Then we can go into what options you have.
 

Kavik

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Kurt,
You've got mail...

Edit: Lift?

The more I stare at my truck, I swear a can take out about 3-4" of lift by recessing the mounts and flattening out the springs. So if the SOA adds the axle diameter (3") plus the spring pack/perch (3"). Theoretically 6" minus 4" equals 2" lift from the current setup. I only rub in one spot now (front lower edge of front fender during stuff/turn). With a shackle reversal (recessed, not the lift kind) my wheel travel trajectory will change from forward sweep to rearward sweep. If I re-center the axle carefully, I think I can minimize the rub even w/ 35's. I also perdict I'll need angle shims or rotate the perches when I weld them on. The spring eyes will not neccessarily be level like factory.

I also look forward to increasing my front and rear approach angles with this move. This is almost as important to me as the lift itself. With all due respect, those shackle reversal "lift" kits must get beat to hell!

More info needed-
Links to other rigs with shortend/recessed spring mounts?
Hi-steer clearance problems w/ a SUA? (I might install the hi-steer before the SOA)
Links to tranny crossmember/driveshaft clearance mods?
Where to get or part # for extended brake lines?
Whould you go to the trouble of running poor-boy used 4.10's?
Pics of the longest shocks on a 60 series?

I promise I will do a write up when she goes under the knife. And I'll be sure to give props for any knowledge contributions!

Thanks!
 
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I don't understand the reasoning behind fabbing up all that stuff, recessing the mounts, etc. to gain 2" of lift and trying to clear 35's at the same time. If that is what you really want to do, good on yer. Before you start all that cutting, grinding, welding, and swearing, I would take a ride in someone's Cruiser that has an OME lift on it. I started OME and wheeled that for years before finally making the jump to SOA. If you end up doing this project, pay close attention to sagging springs. You could go from 2" of lift to 0 in less than a year if you wheel it regularly. 0" lift and 35's, now we're talkin'.
 
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Extended brake lines-
Napa part # 38009 for both the front and rear it's the hose that goes from the frame to the axle You should also replace your short ones on the wheels if they are really bad but I didn't think I needed to yet.
this is for the rubber ones, I didnt see a need to go SS. I think these were $30 for both. Had them for me in 2 days.

Only other one of those ?'s I might can help with is the 4.11 gears. Are you talking swapping out the 3rds or actually pulling gears, etc? I say try it with the stock 3.73 and see how bad it is, then go from there.
 

Kavik

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DBS- OME would be great, but I guess the motivation is clearing off all of the clutter under the truck.

Early straight axle Toy mini's are a thing of beauty. Clean mounts(nothing to hang up), flexy springs, good travel, and, if they were as heavy as a 60, they would ride nice too. They are SOA factory, with a small link for axle wrap. Simple.

Spring under is a thing of beauty in it's own right. It's a great way to put long, multileaf spring on a stock hieght truck. There's got to be a reason Toyota's flagship truck (LC) was SUA some 30+ years and went straight to long links on the 80 series. In the grand scheme of things, a 40, 55, 60, w/ the stock 28" tires is ridiculously over built.

I guess I'm just looking to change stuff up a bit. It's the challenge of maximizing clearance and minimizing ride height.

Rule - Good looking out on the Napa #. Is that stock length?
 
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those are to be added to the stock lines. From what I remember I bough tmine over 6 mo. ago. And got the info about them from va cruiser (i think) about a year ago. I really need to get my stuff on. Sucks to have all htose parts in the garage and not putting them on b/c i need to spend another $300.
 
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Don't forget, spring arch and leaves is what gives these wagons the load capacity they need.Too flat(soft) springs and your camping gear w/family will be bottoming out.
You will get 4-6" of lift from a SOA but it won't last.Axle+Spring perch.
 
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qoute/ - I'm getting to the point on my wheeling trips where I'm wishing I had sliders and corner protection.

i can help you out on the sliders :cool:
 

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