Rattle coming from oil pan, loose nut or bolt? Should I pull the oil pan? (1 Viewer)

[Ollie88]

So another live update: I just had someone holding the brake for me while in an incline (unfortunately the park brake adjuster was already fully in)

- Car was idling
- Gear neutral
- Rattling sounds doesn't seem to be coming from the fan hitting the shroud or the front, it's really close to the gearbox/clutch
- I did see that one of rubber engine mounts was worn (a piece of rubber was broken off, see pic)
- I also realized that the cover where I think the clutch sits is missing a few bolts (at least 3 out of 6 it looks like?)

My questions:
1. Can I safely take off the cover that has the missing bolts without splashing oil everywhere? I guess I'll find the clutch there?
2. If the rattling sound is from a loose bolt, someone said this won't make the same noise if in the oil pan due to amount of oil dampening the sounds? The rattling sounds very hollow so more likely coming from the clutch area?
3. I realized my starter was missing a bolt and replaced with one that doesn't fit, maybe this one feel through to the clutch area?

 

[Skreddy]

Yes you can pop that cover off, no oil in there (unless your rear main leaks!). There, you’ll find your flywheel, clutch and associated parts.

That last engine mount pic: something’s not quite as Toyota designed it…

 

[firemanj92]

x2 what @Skreddy said.

Listening/looking at the age and lack of love I wouldn't count out a bad throw-out/clutch release bearing.

 

[Ollie88]

Thanks I'm going to pop that cover off tonight, here's a video with the rattling sound while in neutral but in an incline:

IMG_1300.MOV

MOV File

1drv.ms

 

[OPMACHINE]

How your tried shacking the exhaust system? Look for cracks and broken welds coming out of the header.

 

[Ollie88]

I took off the clutch and flywheel cover tonight, all looks good. I also tried locating the noise again without success.... here's the diagnosis with the clutch cover removed:

- Only rattles when in an incline or acceleration
- Rattles both with gear engaged and in neutral
- Rattles both with clutch in and clutch out
- No difference in sound with clutch in
- Sound doesn't really seem to be coming from the exhaust
- The sound is not constant, sometimes it's gone for a few secs
- Rattling sound RPM increases when

I'm really lost as to what this can be, still thinking it must be loose bolt/nut/something in the oil pan but wondering if that could damage pistons or the crankshaft and whether you would hear it at all given the dampening sound effect due to being filled with oil??

 

[Tancruiser]

I'd stick one of those super strong rare earth magnets on the pan if there's a nut rattling around it'll hold it in place. Just a thought.

 

[OPMACHINE]

broken engine mount causing the engine rotate with RPM and allow the fan to contact the shroud?

 

[Ollie88]

Thanks for the quick replies, magnet is a good idea. Will order one and try that (I believe the oil pan is steel and not ferro so should hold?).

I also just used a soft hammer to tap on all the areas around the gearbox: oil pan low front and rear, flywheel, transfer case, and the exhaust all the way from the manifold but no sound of something that's loose... I'm really about to get lost in this

Here's a last video, it sounds awful.

Microsoft OneDrive

Can someone tell whether:
1. This could be the throw-out bearing, either in 1st, neutral and/or with clutch in AND out (rattle sounds the same in all scenarios)? Based on my experience I'd say you should hear a difference if clutch is engaged and throw out gearing is bad?
2. A loose piece of metal in an oil pan can actually make such a rattling noise because it's filled with oil?

 

[sterling]

1.I can hear my throw out bearing only make noise when clutch is engaged. When disengaged it goes away.And does not sound like your video at all.Think your correct on that assumption.

 

[Skreddy]

Post lots of pics of your engine bay, trans, front driveline, radiator, apron to fender bolts, splash shields, basically everything. A noise like that you should be able to find if external. If it’s internal to the engine, chaos is soon to show itself.

A bad throw out bearing or improper clutch fork adjustment should stop making noise when clutch is depressed.

Nothing in the oil pan should make a noise like that unless it’s banging around in free air off the crank/rods. Impending catastrophic failure could make that noise…..

Clutch, pressure plate, flywheel can make that noise. Especially if there’s a broken pressure plate spring, loose clutch friction pad (missing/loose/broken rivets), loose flywheel bolts hitting clutch disc or throw out bearing, etc.

Starter gear throwing out because of bad return spring so the spur gear is banging off flywheel.

Narrowing the noise to a specific area is going to be key, especially for internet diagnoses.

 

[jembourbe]

Thanks Mattressking, my handbrake doesn't work backward so need help but yes will ask someone to sit in while in an incline to keep a foot on the brake so I can make a better video. In the meantime, just wanted to say you folks are all amazing by helping me troubleshoot this and pointing me in the (hopefully) right direction!

Use a wheel chock to hold the car from rolling on the slight incline. A friend's foot on the brake pedal is a good way to get squashed.

 

[middlecalf]

Choose your friends wisely!

 

[Hugh Heifer]

broken engine mount causing the engine rotate with RPM and allow the fan to contact the shroud?

Already discussed and examined.

 

[Ollie88]

UPDATE! I had a friend came over (couldn't find wheel chocks locally unfortunately) so had him step on the brakes while I was checking what was going on underneath while in an incline.... turns out it was the starter hitting the starter ring gear on the flywheel, really dumb but I think someone forgot to install the spring that pushes back the gear??

See photo. Looks like there's a spring missing there, does anyone know? Or is there supposed to be a starter return spring that sits inside the solenoid? It's an original starter as far as I know.

 

[Ollie88]

Think I found the issue, there seems to be a lot of room between the hook and the axle bearing, that may explain why the start gear isn't all the way pushed back?
Another one could be the solenoid, the return spring feels strong but maybe it's been replaced for a different one which is slightly shorter and that's why it's not able to make the right angle to push it back in...

Microsoft OneDrive

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AryhR9emulXFg7VF707knEZsr2tL4w?e=a88wxh

 

[pb4ugo]

I hate to burst your bubble, there's not supposed the be a spring. What's an axle and hook? It's called a starter bendex. I'm not sure if they're available or not. It should be. Can you leave the starter out an push start the 40, and see if the noise is gone? Evidently your parked on an incline. Be sure to secure the starter wire.

 

[Ollie88]

I took the starter out with a running engine then went for a test drive and yes the rattle is gone.

And sorry Bendix is the right word indeed, somehow the return spring isn’t coming back in all the way which is why it’s hitting the flywheel in an incline.

Does anyone know whether the starter pics and videos look normal? To me something doesn’t seem right

 

[73FJ40]

 

[1969FJ]