Ran out of fuel, trouble restarting

[perrobravo]

Ran my BJ74 out of fuel (and yes, I feel like an idiot). Had to have it towed to my house since I was unable to get it started after putting in more diesel. Unfortunately, after reading the engine manual and trying to follow the instructions and reading just about every related thread I could find on Mud, it still won't start (and I'm feeling even more like an idiot). Truck ran flawlessly before, so I'm hoping it is my lack of basic diesel knowledge that is getting in the way.

I'm admitting defeat and hoping someone can help. Any and all recommendations would be much appreciated.

Here's what I've done so far.

1. Ran out of fuel
Truck sputtered and stalled

2. Added a bit more than 5 gallons of diesel to the tank
Tried to restart...nothing.

3. Opened up the fuel filter bleeder plug

4. Used the manual priming pump on the Fuel Feed Pump
Nothing seemed to happen. No fuel, no bubbles, nothing came out of the bleeder plug

5. Spun the fuel filter off
There was fuel up to the top in the filter, so threaded it back into place

6. Cranked the engine (with the bleeder plug open)
Nothing seemed to happen. No fuel, no bubbles, nada

7. Pulled the input line off the fuel feed pump and stuck it into a bottle of diesel (per the manual)
Using the manual priming pump, nothing happened. Cranking the engine got bubbles then fuel to spit out of the fuel filter bleeder plug. Closed it and the engine turned over and ran rough, but for a few seconds until I turned it off...a good sign, I think.

According to the repair manual, next step is to look at the sedimenter and/or upstream lines

8. Drained the sedimenter
Some crud and then fuel came out of the bottom, but only after (if I remember the sequence correctly) I also opened the little valve at the top of the sedimenter, letting more air in (perhaps a bad idea).

There doesn't appear to be any fuel coming from the line exiting the sedimenter (where I disconnected it from the input to the feed pump). I can't find any instructions in the manual or elsewhere on how to specifically bleed the lines from the sedimenter. I could plug it all back together and keep cranking with the fuel filter bleed plug open, but that didn't work before, so I'm not sure what the next step should be. Since I haven't been able to get the manual pump of the Fuel Feed Pump to do anything, I'm a bit worried it isn't operational.

Thoughts? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[chappohj47]

Sounds like you need a new primer pump sedimenter could be blocked from crap in the bottom of the tank going through it

 

[Eco 45]

You need to loosen the lines going to each injector, spin the engine with the starter till fuel spits out of the loosened lines. Re tighten the lines and the truck should start. Very common to get air in the lines going to the injector when you run out of fuel. Good luck.

 

[perrobravo]

Sounds like you need a new primer pump sedimenter could be blocked from crap in the bottom of the tank going through it

I don't like the sound of that! Any guess as to how many cycles of this pump it should take to move fuel through? I've tried maybe 50, then gave up. I assume a bad primer pump could go undetected until something like this happens...in other words the pump doesn't do anything when the vehicle is running, right?

You need to loosen the lines going to each injector, spin the engine with the starter till fuel spits out of the loosened lines. Re tighten the lines and the truck should start. Very common to get air in the lines going to the injector when you run out of fuel. Good luck.

About how much cranking should I expect to do? Assuming I have fuel up to the sedimenter, then air in the system after that, with the injectors loosened, is this a few seconds of cranking? Minutes?

Thanks to both of you for the help!

 

[dadinabarrel]

When I've had my injectors off (and when I ran out of diesel) I've found you can get it done if you have someone constantly pumping the primer pump while you're cranking. It does sound like your primer is buggered.

 

[Eco 45]

You just loosen the line a little going to each injector ( you shouldn't loosen the line enough to pull it free from the injector), you do not loosen the injector. It usually only tanks a few cranks before fuel starts to spit out at the loosened line and it will spit all over.

 

[perrobravo]

No luck. Put the input hose to the fuel feed pump back in place, then loosened the lines at each injector and cranked. At first got a little forward progress...some spitting of fuel from each of the injector lines. Tightened each one by one, cranking in between, but the engine wouldn't start. With the last injector line still loose, I cranked the engine quite a bit and no more fuel came out. No bubbles, nothing.

Not really sure where to go next. Thoughts?

 

[Eco 45]

You can use an electric diesel pump fed from a Jerry Can feeding fuel into the sedimenter. This will force fuel through the system. Again you will have to follow the procedures for bleeding air from the system including the injector lines. Try starting the truck will the electric pump running. If the truck starts then try disconnecting the power from the electric pump to see if the truck continues to run on its own. If the truck continues to run, turn it off and reconnect the stock lines and it should run. If the truck stops when you disconnect power from the electric fuel pump then you may have a bad lift pump. Hopefully this helps and we don't have to look at other possibilities.

 

[itbrokeagain]

I'm sure this is an absolutely horrible idea but what about starting fluid?

 

[perrobravo]

You can use an electric diesel pump fed from a Jerry Can feeding fuel into the sedimenter. This will force fuel through the system. Again you will have to follow the procedures for bleeding air from the system including the injector lines. Try starting the truck will the electric pump running. If the truck starts then try disconnecting the power from the electric pump to see if the truck continues to run on its own. If the truck continues to run, turn it off and reconnect the stock lines and it should run. If the truck stops when you disconnect power from the electric fuel pump then you may have a bad lift pump. Hopefully this helps and we don't have to look at other possibilities.

Thanks again everyone for your help. I'm following the advice above from @Eco 45 and seem to have made a bit of progress. Feeling a bit better as a result, but still don't have the truck back on the road.

I bought small diesel pump, plumbed it in bypassing the sedimenter figuring that would eliminate a moving part. When drawing fuel from a can, the engine eventually started and ran until it smoothed out with the electric pump on. So far so good.

Next, I'll try to repeat the same going through the sedimenter and will try cutting off the electric pump to see if it keeps running. Fingers crossed!

Here is the pump I'm using:

This thing seems like it might be too weak for the job. I had to use some old skool methods to get suction going from the jerry can to the pump and am now rinsing my mouth with a Central Coast Syrah that for sure wasn't meant to be paired with the taste of diesel. That aside, I hope that procedure will help pull fuel from the tank into the sedimenter.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I ve restarted dozens of diesels using only the hand primer and bleeding the air at the injectors. The hand primer should be able to pull fuel from the tank in 30 pumps ,if it cant , you need a new one.
As dadinabarrel suggested , cranking and pumping will often work(assuming the primer is ok).
You could also syphon the fuel from a jerry can direct to the injector pump. After it starts, reconnect the fuel lines and the engine will draw the fuel through.
Ether will also work. Modern starter fluids are only about 60% ether, they have other compounds added to slow down the burn rate.
Tow starting them in 4-5th gear also works.

 

[perrobravo]

Thanks @roscoFJ73 !

I was able to get it running from a jerry can plumbed in upstream of the sedimenter. It ran fine after the expected coughing and spitting (by the truck and by me after sucking on the fuel line). I also verified there is fuel right up to the sedimenter from the tank, but unfortunately with everything back in the original position, I'm back to where I started.

So, I'm concluding what you and @Eco 45 suggested, which is that my priming pump is toast. It seems like this should be a lot easier.

That said, I can't logically see why I'd be able to pull fuel from a jerry can and have the truck run fine, but not be able to get it going with fuel from the tank...where I can see (and taste) it immediately before the sedimenter. The tank is about half full, by the way.

More cranking and finger crossing to commence. And while giving my starter a rest, I'll figure out where/how to quickly get a replacement priming pump.

 

[perrobravo]

Success! The truck finally runs again! Test drove it to the nearest diesel station to try to regain cosmic balance. Thanks to everyone for your help. I was about to lose my mind.

In the end, what did it was plumbing the electric pump before the sedimenter (pulling from the tank), running the truck, then quickly unplugging the pump and reconnecting the original fuel lines. Took a couple attempts to do this quick enough so that only a small amount of air made it into the lines and the engine would continue to run/let me crank out the air.

Needless to say I'm relieved. I suppose a functioning priming pump would have made this a lot easier. If I can fine one, I'll keep it on hand in case something goes wrong down the road.

Cheers!

 

[roscoFJ73]

Which primer do you have? The type that sits on the injection pump or the other type that is aprt of the filter head?
If its the one on the pump , I think you can use the Bosch type from a mercedes, cheap and better. Look on ebay.

 

[Canarias]

Yes I've plugged and played between my 1977 Merc Diesel and various cruisers. I had more vehicles than I had working primers at one point last year but for just a few dollars on ebay I got a couple of new ones that work great. Also, its pretty simple to take your lift pump apart, clean the valves and filter in gasoline, put new rubber o rings and a new copper washer in, and have it working like new, sometimes. If you do clean in gasoline (corrosive) make sure not to expose parts for too long, and to get them in some diesel soon after. Remember also that your injectors and injection pump are sensitive, precision parts, avoid any testing/temporary fixes that mean fuel gets to them without being filtered. Fuel should go thru a primary filter before (or built into) the lift pump, then a secondary filter before the injection pump.

 

[perrobravo]

Here's the one I have that is suspected of not working:

Anyone have a link to an alternative such as those mentioned by @roscoFJ73 and @Canarias ? Found a thousand options with a simple search, but anything that is known to work on the 13B-T would be very much appreciated.

 

[roscoFJ73]

AFAIK ,all the older merc ones are the same, the ones on ebay for the models made in the 60s ,70s and 80s all have the same bosch part number 2447010038 .

I mentioned the bosch unit because it is by far the easiest to source ,its the cheapest and to my knowledge there is nothing else except after market toyota types which have let some owners on this forum down.

 

[perrobravo]

AFAIK ,all the older merc ones are the same, the ones on ebay for the models made in the 60s ,70s and 80s all have the same bosch part number 2447010038 .

I mentioned the bosch unit because it is by far the easiest to source ,its the cheapest and to my knowledge there is nothing else except after market toyota types which have let some owners on this forum down.

Thanks. Just ordered one. For $20, I'll consider it cheap insurance.

 

[cruiserdan]

The Priming pump is live in this market. 22501-77021.

 

[RhinoRig]

If it makes you feel any better, we just did the same damn thing! And like you, our primer pump was shot. I tried all day and got fuel up to the bleeder nipple, but then the sun went down and I threw in the towel. We were sending it off to Safari Ltd to get some mechanical work done anyways.

And porter is a good beer to wash out the diesel taste...