Raised panel (used as cabinet door) problem

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WarDamnEagle

WarDamnEagle

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Recently had an L shaped wet bar installed in our house and I've ran into a bit of a problem. The cabinet maker and I decided that the best use of the corner dead-space was to make one of the raised panels on the front of the bar "live" so that it could be opened from the front. There are euro hinges on the left most panel in the first photo. That worked great until a week later when he installed the brass foot rail (see second photo).

I've thought of a couple of solutions using magnetic catches so that the panel can be pulled off but thought I would see if anyone had anything better to offer. I also thought about sawing the panel across a seam along the bottom (and fixing the bottom) but no matter how you do that the seam will be visible.

Any ideas?
Picture 001.webp
Picture 002.webp
 
There are a few options. There are puck type magnets you can drill and inset, but I think my first choice would be "push" type magnetic latch.

When you push on it, it actually "pops" out towards you. These use to very popular on stereos years ago thaat had glass doors, but are available in different sixes and strengths.

Maybe the disc magnets on the bottom, and the push latches at the top.

Here's a link for the type I'm suggesting.

Quinby Hardware | All Departments | CABINET & DRAWER HARDWARE
 
titanpat57 said:
There are a few options. There are puck type magnets you can drill and inset, but I think my first choice would be "push" type magnetic latch.

When you push on it, it actually "pops" out towards you. These use to very popular on stereos years ago thaat had glass doors, but are available in different sixes and strengths.

Maybe the disc magnets on the bottom, and the push latches at the top.

Here's a link for the type I'm suggesting.

Quinby Hardware | All Departments | CABINET & DRAWER HARDWARE
Click to expand...


Yes I've thought of using those but I don't want it to just fall off when I pull on the top. I will do that if I don't come up with anything else.



beaufort-fj60 said:
you could change it to open like a bin
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean. If I put it on drawer slides then it will still only open 4". The panel is about 2" too low to clear the bar. I even thought about building a frame such that I could pull it out about 3" on slides (like a bin panel) and then have horizontal slides to move it to the right. Unfortunately that brace that the bar runs through will still catch about an 1" or so of the panel.

I'm thinking my best best would be some kind of special hinges on the bottom of the door with magnetic catches at the top. That way the door would pull open from the top and rest almost totally open on the bar. Maybe that's what you meant by "open like a bin"?
 
You need a full overlay hinge...details to follow.....


Clip-on 170 Inset

and a pic.....If you have some leftover stained 3/4" material, I'd cut and glue a strap across the back of the door, and experiment with the hinge location and heighth. You can make up mock-up models from plywood or pine to verify tolerances, and clearences.
FLFO.webp
 
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That hettich support mounted on the bottom on each side might be just the ticket. It looks like it would raise the panel an inch or so as it was pulled down and would obviously not have any frame clearance issues. The only potential problem I foresee is that support is for a "lift up" door so the spring is working against the weight of the door to keep the door open or to at least make it easier to open. In my case the spring will be working with the weight of the door so the door might open rather fast if you weren't holding it back.

I'll do some searching. Maybe they make a model specifically for pull down orientations instead of lift up with a different spring arrangement?

Thanks!

Btw, a standard euro hinge won't work. The raised panel will pinch against the frame that it's inset into when you try to open the panel. By experimentation it looks like you need at least 3/8" or more clearance which I don't have.

Here's a cut sheet of the hettich support if anyone is interested:
Hettich support.webp
 
Could also use a set of drawer slides and mount a small pivot on the ends where the slide and door meet so as you slide the panel out it can rotate to miss the foot bar. Once it was horizontal the door back would just rest on the bottom of the slide. Kind of like a table. Then you would have full access to the opening.

Hope that make sense.
 
Seems like a perfect place for the spittoon -

http://api.***.com/api/click?format=go&key=adf0a72d922ed160d68ae75920f384de&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.ih8mud.com%2Fworkshop-home-improvement%2F553635-raised-panel-used-cabinet-door-problem.html&v=1&libid=1327364795619&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dutchcrafters.com%2Fproduct_images%2Fpid_2446-Amish-Furniture-Kitchen-Furniture-Pine-Wood-Trash-Bin-Cabinet-with-Drawer-and-Hand-Painted-Design-Option--105.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.ih8mud.com%2Fsearch.php%3Fsearchid%3D8595412%26pp%3D25%26page%3D10&title=Raised%20panel%20(used%20as%20cabinet%20door)%20problem&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dutchcrafters.com%2Fproduct...ption--105.jpg&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13273649157333
 
Michael Hanson said:
Design before build.Why not just lower the brass or raise the base of the cabinet? 2cents MIke
Click to expand...

Raise the base of a fully installed 6' x 6' cabinet unit with installed plumbing, electrical and granite countertops? Not to mention the fact that everything is caulked and painted. The granite backspashes are even glued to the walls. I don't think so. I've looked into the brass rail but it's either use that one or eliminate it because they will all be a problem (and they aren't cheap FWIW). How would you suggest lowering it btw? Those are cast supports.

The cabinet guy did design it in some kind of cabinet makers 3D software (similar to PDS in that you could rotate the image, etc) but nobody tried to open the door on the bar foot rail (which obviously wasn't even an option in the program). Hey it was a mistake by both of us and it's not the end of the world. I just thought mud might have some tricks that I haven't considered and I would say that the hettich supports have delivered a good possibility.
 
There are many different brass rails available from several cos. This seems to be a problem the contractor would cover. Who was supervising the install? Id let the contractor take care of this for you. I always did for my customers. MIke
 
Michael Hanson said:
There are many different brass rails available from several cos. This seems to be a problem the contractor would cover. Who was supervising the install? Id let the contractor take care of this for you. I always did for my customers. MIke
Click to expand...

I was supervising the install.....and it went perfect. LOL

I paid a cabinet guy to build and install the cabinets, bar top (beautiful slab of black walnut), foot rail, etc. and a granite guy to install the countertops and back splashes in the wet area. The cabinet guy has done several projects for me and always does a great job. He and I worked together and knocked out the plumbing and electrical.

We're both just trying to figure out the best way to resolve this one relatively tiny issue. I have looked at other brass rail supports, btw, and I haven't seen one low enough to allow the door to clear. The one that's installed has the top of the 1 1/2" brass rail at 6 1/4" above the floor.

In hindsight it's easy to see that he should have designed the cabinets with taller base moulding and there wouldn't have been an issue as the panels would have been shorter with more clearance to the floor.
 
I say give up the space.

Those heittich tilt hinges are for the sink panel, and are very weak and unstable. Yuo'd beat the s*** out of that panel if you installed then. There is better quality flip-up hardware that could be used though.

Even with good flip-up (see blum) hinges, you will only get about 30 degrees of open, and with the 12" overhang, it'll will be apain to get anything in or out of that cab.

You would be better off looking at some options for the foot rail. Maybe a swing out section at that end?

And I'm with Mike. This problem should have been foreseen by your designer, or cabinet guy. Although if it was an after thought, it is very easy to miss this kind of conflict.
 
I bet he could do the bin-style bottom hinged door with a set of these mortised in.

Brusso® Quadrant Hinges - Lee Valley Tools

The other option would be a nice set of exposed hinges, but it sounds like you want people to not really know its there.

Either way, once you get a bin mounted to the door, it would be enough weight to keep it closed. Then you would need to have a handle or some kind of pop-out latch to open it.
Ooh, how about one of these? :cool:
Magnetic Secret Latch - Lee Valley Tools
 
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