Question on TRD blowers..

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by alia176, Jun 27, 2005.

  1. alia176

    alia176

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    A friend of mine just picked up a '96 LX450 113k miles with a TRD blower. Not having a "blown" vehicle, I don't have any experience in this arena. I understand that this is a Root's style blower made by Eaton. Yes?

    Here're the questions:

    1. How do you know if the blower is doing it's thing? If you don't have a boost gauge. With stock sized tires, should you head go back when you punch it?

    2. when does it come on? Is there a specific rpm at which the turbines gets spooled and your manifold goes from negative to positive press?

    3. does the MAP stay negative when you're driving around w/o putting your foot in it?

    4. This rpm range, when the blower kicks in, can be moved up/down simply by using diff diam drive pulleys?

    5. Is the TRD blower simply freewheeling when you're not stomping on the pedal? In another words, no parasitic loss during this time?

    In my Mustang 5.0 days, the centrigual blowers were different acting from the TRD unit. Hence the dumb questions! :D

    Thanks.

    Ali
     
  2. Scamper

    Scamper

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    Yes--it's a roots type blower. They are Eaton units.

    1. Without a boost gague, it will all be by feel. But if you've driven a NA 80, you should have no difficulty in noticing the difference.

    2. The blower is operating at all times. There is no "spool-up" as air is constantly being pumped, and there is never negative manifold pressure.

    3. Not sure what you're referring to by the MAP. But as in #2, there is no negative pressure.

    4. The pulley can be swapped (Dan has one or two he's tried), but only the stock pulley is certified to be 50 state compliant with emmisions. Using a smaller pulley will generate greater boost, and thus greater power. However, it also increases the potential for detonation and stress on the engine.

    5. When you don't require boost (at idle, going downhill, decelerating, etc.), the blower opens the bypass valve which significantly reduces the parasitic losses.
     
  3. alia176

    alia176

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    Thanks for the reply. I was hoping that my buddy's LX had a little more "punch" than a NA 80!
     
  4. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    Ali,

    I'll add my two cents, yes as Scamp mentions its a "roots", mfgd by Eaton, and is the least efficient blower on the market. The centrifical blowers used on the mustangs is way more efficent - producing more power. I wish TRD would of at least used a "twin screw" blower - similar to a roots type, except the compressed air is forced through the rotor blades rather than the blades / housing interface.

    3. MAP (assume you mean "Manifold Atmosphere Pressure") would be negative - high vacuum (22/19) when idling, light cruising - just like any vehicle. Any time you add (sensors registering a load on the engine & the bypass valve is not being used) Boost -> the pressure becomes positive - so the vacuum gauge stays near / pegged at zero (since who uses partial throttle / boost:) )

    If I remember correctly, the SC pulley diameter is 3.2-in, which produces about 7 PSI boost (I'm located about 850ft above sea level). I have a 3.0-in pulley that I also use, which produces close to 10 psi - but worry about the temperature of the inlet air charge [another disadvantage of the roots blower], which as Scamp mentions can lead to predetonation. This can be controlled by cooling the inlet charge through air to air (Photoman) or air to water intercoolers (FZFillmore), or water/methanol injection (like Dan)

    Joe
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2005
  5. alia176

    alia176

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    interesting info, thanks man.

    Are you guys finding an extra amount of heat under the hood due to this blower?
     
  6. LX_TREME

    LX_TREME

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    Correct me if im wrong, Is that what the Eaton unit looks like installed on the 450?http://cof.webtrix.net/pages/LX450.html
     
  7. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    Yes!

    Looks similar to the prototype for the LC SC system, which included that nice air / water intercooler!

    Just left Tony @ chariots of fire a voicemail to see if the system is available!

    Joe

     
  8. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    Ali,

    Not really any large increase in temps. I think Dan measured ~ 180 degrees in his engine compartment.

    Joe

     
  9. Scamper

    Scamper

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    As Moose notes, the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) can be negative assuming you are subtracting the barometric pressure (e.g., it's like any other intake in that it goes negative at idle). The LC does not have a MAP sensor; intake air is measured by a MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor. But the same principles should apply.

    Ali - that's not the Kazuma unit in that pic. Looks like some kind of heat exchanger on there to the left (PS) of the blower, though it doesn't look like an intercooler. Curious what that is...

    It does indeed get a little hotter in the engine bay, though I'm never there to measure it myself :D
     
  10. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    Scamper,

    The SC is the same unit - but has a different mounting bracket on the head, since the compressed air outlet is exiting into Heat Exchanger chamber.

    My bad for the wrong terminology :D

    The Heat Exchanger in the picture is connected to another heat exchanger in the form of a radiator (air / water) located in the front of the main coolant radiator. They might even tie it into the main cooling system.

    Joe
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2005
  11. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    The blower is an M90 Eaton to be specific. It's warmer under there because of the extra power being generated and the ammount of air space taken up by the additional plumbing. I have about 18-19 inches of vacuum at idle and about 5.5 lbs maximum boost with the stock 3.2 inch nose pulley. The 3.0 inch pulley is good for about 7-8 lbs at this altitude and the throttle is a lot "snappier". I use it rarely becaus my fuel delivery can't keep up and it knocks at mid range before I can bring the fire hose on line. Christo has been playing with a method to fool the computer in order to get the fuel where the engine needs it. I need to go spend some time with him to get it tuned properly. I imagine it would really make it come alive then.
     
  12. Scamper

    Scamper

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    Dan -

    Is Christo's buggering of the ECU supposed to work with the stock injectors, FP, and FPR?
     
  13. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    If I understand it properly one needs a bigger fuel pump (like a TT Supra pump or the like) and a rising rate regulator.
     
  14. Scamper

    Scamper

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    Thanks for the info. Please let me know if/when you guys get the bugs worked out of that. I've always felt that I'm running on the edge when under load with the stock parts.
     
  15. Rainy Day FZJ

    Rainy Day FZJ

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    Where is Steve-O from Man-a-fre? He and a crew were designing a +4 product ( theier name brand ) that was suposed to be a piggyback system. It was discussed in a recent thread about thier up and comming turbo system.
    The dyno graph showed a 80-90 hp and tq increase if I remember. Thier web site has only mentioned the turbo and not the computer add on for the supercharger..................................

    Steve-o help with the rest of the story!
     
  16. clownmidget

    clownmidget

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    Not the 1FZ-FE s/c but this site really goes into detail about the shortcomings of the Toyota product (http://www.gadgetonline.com/4Run.htm). The UniChip piggy back ECU was installed by one list member with the s/c too a while back and he seemed to be pretty pleased with the results (too lazy to search...).
     
  17. alia176

    alia176

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    Why aren't the SC guys going with the rising rate fuel press regulator right now? At least this way, when you're on full boost, you're (almost) guaranteed to get more fuel for the same injector pulse. Isn't it better to have too much fuel vs not enough? It'd seem to me that this is a fairly inexpensive solution rather than the Unichip route. Which can cost, what, say around $800 or so?
     
  18. airlaird

    airlaird

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    Wow...WHY can't someone make a piggy back or mod some type of intercooler for our S/C'd LC's?? I 've begged and pleaded for some type of intercooler. If anyone contacts the webtrix folks, ask them if the air-to air cooler ...or whatever that thing is in the picture..if it's available as an add on to our existing S/C's.
    airlaird
     
  19. Steve-O

    Steve-O

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    It is true, we made a piggy-back chip, mixed with a larger fuel pump and regulator. Here are the dyno sheets again for people who didnt see it. This was done on a 93 FZJ80. I know the 95-97 computer is different, I am not sure if you need the piggy-back to do this mod. We will be working on 95-97 next. We did run into a problem with this kit last week, that is why its not for sale right now. It should be fixed pretty quick and up for sale in a week or two (I hope). You can see in the dyno where the fuel stops delivering, this is what is mainly stopping the extra horsepower.

    We looked into an intercooler a few times, but theres just not sufficient room to do it. The inlet is too tight, and pipes would be all over the place.

    Steve
    trddynograph1.jpg
     
  20. Steve-O

    Steve-O

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    Please also note the RPM levels, dyno sheets are very mis-leading sometimes. The vehicle on the dyno had a 6 inch lift, with 33 inch tires, I believe 4.88 gears. He normally runs 37" tires but they wouldnt fit on the dyno. Other than cleaned and calibrated fuel injectors, there was nothing specail about the vehicle. We also did not change anything other than the pump/chip before the second run.

    Steve
     
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