Purchase Advice for the new FJ Cruiser (1 Viewer)

[elmariachi]

I was adding this to another thread but decided to start a new one.

I run Park Place Auto Leasing in Houston. If you are thinking about this truck, here are some tips from someone in the business:

1. Every dealer in the US will have these trucks, regardless of their location or size. So don't think that because a dealer is small and outside the city, they won't be able to get them because they will and they all pay the same price as bigger dealers.

2. If you want to put a deposit down now that's okay but be sure you do it with a sales manager and have them execute a dealer buyer's order with you showing the price not to exceed "MSRP" (not an actual number but the words Not To Exceed MSRP), less your deposit. Have them write on the buyer's order that your deposit is refundable if you decide you don't want the truck. $100 is not a deposit, its an insult. Offer a minimum of $1000 as a deposit.

3. Trust me when I say that 99% of the dealers out there have no idea about the Land Cruiser subculture and don't care. Their target buyer is affluent Dad and Mom who are buying this because their son or daughter saw one of us in our real Land Cruiser going down the higwhay. And you can bet they'll show up on TV and in the movies to stoke that fire.

4. While some of you may think it ludicrous that a dealer would take a deposit this early, think about this. A dealer taking deposits this early is ensuring himself of how many serious buyers he has. When it comes time for him to
negotiate his allocation (Hey John Dealer, I'll give you 40 FJ Cruisers in this production run if you take 40 Camrys) then he knows what he's dealing with. Those allocations run 90-120 days in advance and mean that there are more available trucks, which drives the price DOWN.

I have 6 of these on hold in my name with several local Houston area Toyota dealers. As we get closer to delivery I will post more info if anyone is interested in leasing one.

Jim

 

[uzj100]

What kind of lease price are thinking with no money down and 12k miles a year? You have no data for the residual but could take a guess. Lets say purchase price is 21k and the lease term is 36 or 39 months. Shot me a PM if you do not want to post this info.

Thanks,

uzj100

 

[elmariachi]

What kind of lease price are thinking with no money down and 12k miles a year? You have no data for the residual but could take a guess. Lets say purchase price is 21k and the lease term is 36 or 39 months. Shot me a PM if you do not want to post this info.
Thanks,
uzj100

Without an MSRP and a residual %, there's no way to guess and be remotely accurate. I don't think a lease price of $21k is realistic because these trucks won't be that cheap and they will all be bringing MSRP, which I think will be closer to $25K. But if you take a $25k cap cost and a 40% residual then you have $15,000 in depreciation. $15k in residual financed over 36 months at prevailing lease rates will be $475/mo. At that price/payment you would still have your local and state taxes and registration to pay at signing.

This truck is an ideal lease candidate. By leasing you have a guaranteed out at the end of the lease term. If the trucks are turds and there's no market for them, you won't care because you can turn it back in and walk away. If they are smoking hot you can buy it and keep it, or slap it on eBay and make a profit.

 

[FJCOKBYME]

Jim, with all due respect, any amount of consideration binds a contract, including $1. In my case, I'm #1 in line with my dealership with $0. I've done this for years with this honorable Toyota dealer, and they always perform.

Further, there is NO negotiation in the Toyota allocation system. It's turn and earn, period. What you wrote is called "packaging" and highly illegal. Trust me, no dealer needs to be persuaded to take the hottest car in the US, Camry, in exchange for anything. There is no such thing as a slow selling Toyota in this market. Industry standard 60 days supply is currently 120 days for domestics, 30 days or less for Toyota, 2 days for Prius. As I'm sure you know, when Toyota says they'll sell XX whatever (40,000 FJ initially), it happens.

You have 6 on hold in your name? Do you have contracts on deposit? Could you be skewing prices upward with artificial demand? Is this ethical? Should you be posting this with your name and company when TMS watches this board and relays "interesting" items to GST?

 

[elmariachi]

Jim, with all due respect, any amount of consideration binds a contract, including $1. In my case, I'm #1 in line with my dealership with $0. I've done this for years with this honorable Toyota dealer, and they always perform.

There's a difference in a binding contract and an agreement that the dealer construes as genuine. While $1.00 might be considered a binding commitment by a lawyer, MOST dealers will consider it an insult.

Further, there is NO negotiation in the Toyota allocation system. It's turn and earn, period. What you wrote is called "packaging" and highly illegal. Trust me, no dealer needs to be persuaded to take the hottest car in the US, Camry, in exchange for anything. There is no such thing as a slow selling Toyota in this market. Industry standard 60 days supply is currently 120 days for domestics, 30 days or less for Toyota, 2 days for Prius. As I'm sure you know, when Toyota says they'll sell XX whatever (40,000 FJ initially), it happens.

You are debating semantics.....dealers get what the distributor gives them, and that is based on prior unit sales. The Camry was just a for-instance. Though I am curious, if you think Toyotas are so hot at the showroom level....why are dealers calling me begging me to buy them...and why can I buy them back of invoice? You are mistating Toyota's days' supply numbers. These low numbers are not necessarily because the cars are hot, its because the cars are in limited production, which is typical of Toyota when energy prices are high. How many Prius do you want?????

You have 6 on hold in your name? Do you have contracts on deposit? Could you be skewing prices upward with artificial demand? Is this ethical? Should you be posting this with your name and company when TMS watches this board and relays "interesting" items to GST?

Artificial demand??? In fact I do have contracts and deposits though that's really none of your business. I have better things to do than put deposits on cars I can't sell or don't have orders for. I am licensed by the State of Texas and can tell you that leasing companies account for thousands of new Toyotas sold by TMS in Texas every year...THOUSANDS. In fact we are one of their biggest customers so I doubt that they will take much issue with us trying to advise people about the best way to get an FJ. And if you think TMS or GST is watching this board, you probably think the IRS is watching you on eBay too, right? I am having lunch this week with my friends at GST....I'll ask them if they are upset with me and get back to you.

 

[FJCOKBYME]

There's a difference in a binding contract and an agreement that the dealer construes as genuine. While $1.00 might be considered a binding commitment by a lawyer, MOST dealers will consider it an insult.

There are dealers nationwide that accept a signature as binding. Would a GM dealer be insulted or thrilled to get a signature contract on a Suburban?

You are debating semantics.....dealers get what the distributor gives them, and that is based on prior unit sales.

Exactly what I wrote. Turn and earn based on arrivals, not packaging.

The Camry was just a for-instance. Though I am curious, if you think Toyotas are so hot at the showroom level....why are dealers calling me begging me to buy them...and why can I buy them back of invoice?

So can anyone off the street with current incentives, or any fleet and lease outlet that traditionally buys net/net/net. It's the dealer's job to sell anywhere while incentives are in force.

You are mistating Toyota's days' supply numbers. These low numbers are not necessarily because the cars are hot, its because the cars are in limited production, which is typical of Toyota when energy prices are high. How many Prius do you want?????

Flip your words 'limited production' to 'production limited'. Toyota plants are at capacity. Interesting that your sold order bank for Prius is filled, opposite of most anywhere else, and that GST apparently doesn't care about pump-out. Toyota isn't immune from market forces and has had certain series over 120 days supply at times.

Artificial demand??? In fact I do have contracts and deposits though that's really none of your business. I have better things to do than put deposits on cars I can't sell or don't have orders for. I am licensed by the State of Texas and can tell you that leasing companies account for thousands of new Toyotas sold by TMS in Texas every year...THOUSANDS. In fact we are one of their biggest customers so I doubt that they will take much issue with us trying to advise people about the best way to get an FJ. And if you think TMS or GST is watching this board, you probably think the IRS is watching you on eBay too, right? I am having lunch this week with my friends at GST....I'll ask them if they are upset with me and get back to you.

I'm sure they'll buy. Big numbers for Toyota through legitimate fleet and lease deals, as there have been since Toyota got into the game almost two decades ago and where Don Esmond got his start. TMS went to great lengths to prevent multiple deposits on Prius in part by monitoring activity on the boards. TMS won't have any problem with FJ orders given the planned volume. Good to hear you have multiple FJ deposits already. In Colorado, the nation's biggest 4WD market, fleet and lease dealers don't know much about them, and production orders aren't being accepted yet. Most manufacturers monitor relevant boards and find them helpful, and run their own for lead generation. Some salespeople fish for leads from the forums too, and I'd guess some of your business comes from here. At least I hope so. Good luck and good selling!

 

[elmariachi]

There are dealers nationwide that accept a signature as binding. Would a GM dealer be insulted or thrilled to get a signature contract on a Suburban?

TMS went to great lengths to prevent multiple deposits on Prius in part by monitoring activity on the boards.

I never implied or stated that a signature wasn't binding. My original post suggested that a potential buyer of an FJ offer a deposit of $1000 or better in order to demonstrate his/her sincerity in having the option to buy when production arrives. And notice I said "offer" a deposit.

What is the basis for your comments regarding TMS? Are you an educated consumer or are you in the car business?

 

[FirstToy]

Hey this is more fun that watching my dog piss on a tree

 

[wngrog]

Is this prick banned? Why is his post count "0"?

 

[G-Cat]

Is this prick banned? Why is his post count "0"?

Posts in FJCruiser and Chat don't count...so he's an old lurker or a newb who decided his first post should be one calling out JR... :whoops:

 

[Mace]

I never implied or stated that a signature wasn't binding. My original post suggested that a potential buyer of an FJ offer a deposit of $1000 or better in order to demonstrate his/her sincerity in having the option to buy when production arrives. And notice I said "offer" a deposit.

What is the basis for your comments regarding TMS? Are you an educated consumer or are you in the car business?

Funny,
I had Ford BUILD me a superduty to my specs with just a $500 deposit that I gave over the phone with a credit card..

 

[jimm0921]

I am a Toyota Dealer and we try to sell the to the consumer who is going to service thier cars with us.The FJ should start around 21k and max out at 30k depending on options.Are far as allocation goes it is done by turn and earn.Why would you lease the hottest FJ to come to the market in years ? As for deposits we dont require them for customers that have already bought cars from us ..

Be careful when leasing a car you can pay 30 to 40% over sticker and not even know it and you could get whacked to the tune of a 15% intrest rate.Leasing is tricky .

 

[elmariachi]

I am a Toyota Dealer and we try to sell the to the consumer who is going to service thier cars with us.The FJ should start around 21k and max out at 30k depending on options.Are far as allocation goes it is done by turn and earn.Why would you lease the hottest FJ to come to the market in years ? As for deposits we dont require them for customers that have already bought cars from us ..

Be careful when leasing a car you can pay 30 to 40% over sticker and not even know it and you could get whacked to the tune of a 15% intrest rate.Leasing is tricky .

You would lease the hottest car because it may not be hot in 3 or 4 years. Toyota dealers are going to gut the market with these trucks if they are successful, which will diminish used car values. So whomever leases one early will wind up paying less because their walk-away residual will be higher than actual values.

I have never leased a car at 10% over MSRP, let alone 30-40%. All of my lenders cap my rates, the highest I can go with any of my banks is about 8% APR, and the average my customers pay is closer to 5%. There is nothing "tricky" about leasing. Dealers make it "tricky" because they abuse leasing to cover negative equity instead of selling it on its merits.

 

[dgangle]

This is highly entertaining. It's more fun than me peeing on a tree! ;p

 

[Kaderabek]

Don't mess with Jim. He'll take away your bowl of chili.

TJK

 

[jimm0921]

An example

MSRP 25000
banks allow 110% of MSPR at the lowest

with no down payment you can be leased the car at 110% of 25000 MSRP which is 27500 thus you paid 2500 over MSRP If you put money down it can get even higher.

Money factor or interest rate

looks something like this .00225 you times that by 24 and you are at 5%
Most banks will let you mark it up 1.5 to 2 basis points
example .00375 = 8%

3% on 25000 is about 60 dollars a month.

Dealers and brokers are here to make money dont kid yourself.

PS I hear the FJ will be very limited

Jim Mollica
Beaufort SC

 

[firetruck41]

PS I hear the FJ will be very limited

Is 40,000 units considered limited?

 

[elmariachi]

An example
Dealers and brokers are here to make money dont kid yourself.
PS I hear the FJ will be very limited
Jim Mollica
Beaufort SC

What the hell is your point in all of this other than to confuse people??? If you would like to debate leasing vs. buying, let's do it. Frankly, your posts are misleading, inaccurate and your lack of comparative information is why companies like ours do so well. If you would like, I'll gladly show you for all to see.

EVERY business is out to make money.

 

[Kaderabek]

He's about to take your chili....

TJK

 

[fsusteve]

Math always gives me a headache....