Power Steering Selection Criteria (1 Viewer)

[estoltman]

I know there have been many threads on this, but wanted to get some feedback on my thought process.

Vehicle: 78 FJ40, 2.5" OME, 31x10.5x15 (may go 33 in future). On road mainly/ some off road; no plans for rock crawling or anything extreme.

Reason: Better driving at low speeds and tight places - just easier.

Options I have considered:

Mini-Truck Conversion
I like this from a purist perspective, it's simple, and the least expensive.
Questions:
1. Any warts, besides $$$, on using factory PS pump?
2. The entire steering linkage stays in place and isn't simplified like other installs. BUT, is the driving feel/stability any less on this conversion versus the others?

FJ60 Conversion
I like this because it simplifies linkage. But it's also more expensive. And I don't like that the factory shock tower/perch must be cut. I would use F250 shock towers. I also considered reversing the factory perches L to R; so the perch sits behind the shock versus in front. Assume I'd still trim the back side, but avoid the lateral material removal. But don't like any material removal.
Questions:
1. Does it drive better noticeably better than the mini-truck?
2. Given my driving plans, would I benefit from the taller shock towers and longer shocks?
3. What are the advantages of the straightened F250 towers over standard F250 towers? Better geometry or just less fender mods?

Electric Steering
The simplicity appeals to me as does ease of install. I would have to rebuild my manual gear box. But it's far from "Toyota-like". It doesn't require a PS pump. But it's darn expensive. And the linkage isn't simplified.
Questions:
1. Reading the install threads, looks like everyone is attached main power directly to battery. Assume this solves the fusible link issue.
2. Has anyone relocated the manual steering box forward (like the FJ60 conversion) to simplify linkage?

Writing this, it seems like the Mini-Truck is the best route assuming the FJ60 conversion doesn't offer a noticeably superior steering experience.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[pb4ugo]

Mini truck is closer to being like p/s steering assist. There is slight resistance to turning compared to power steering and power is limited. The larger the tire will be a little more difficult to turn. These issues will probsbly be morr evident offroad too. You have more stk tre's, so there will be a little more play in the steering. FJ60 is power steering, and has 2 less tre's, so a little less play. Please explain reversing the perches left to right. My 1st scout steering I used the Ford shock tower, the second I moved the stk tower back, so I didn't have to notch the tower as much. I didnt really like the aesthetics of the ford tower. I didn't scab the outside of the frame , so the box is slightly inward on the frame. The scout setup is similar to fj60/80 p/s. I did the installs myself and it isn't that difficult of a mod. I've not done electric. @wngrog has done several of them. If you have proper steering alignment and a little more caster than stk, wandering and play will not be as bad along with good steering componets.

 

[estoltman]

Mini truck is closer to being like p/s steering assist. There is slight resistance to turning compared to power steering and power is limited. The larger the tire will be a little more difficult to turn. These issues will probsbly be morr evident offroad too. You have more stk tre's, so there will be a little more play in the steering. FJ60 is power steering, and has 2 less tre's, so a little less play. Please explain reversing the perches left to right. My 1st scout steering I used the Ford shock tower, the second I moved the stk tower back, so I didn't have to notch the tower as much. I didnt really like the aesthetics of the ford tower. I didn't scab the outside of the frame , so the box is slightly inward on the frame. The scout setup is similar to fj60/80 p/s. I did the installs myself and it isn't that difficult of a mod. I've not done electric. @wngrog has done several of them. If you have proper steering alignment and a little more caster than stk, wandering and play will not be as bad along with good steering componets.

On the factory location, the perches sit in front of the shock. If you switch sides, it flips the perch to the back side of the shock. Assuming the shock attack point is in the same relative place to the frame/vehicle as factory, you the perch moves back quite a bit. I'm sure some of the aftermarket FJ40 perches can work as well

 

[cruiserkev]

Here's my 2 cents,

60, 80, & Scout boxes require less effort to turn the steering wheel than the mini truck version. My 40 is much easier to steer in tight places and low speeds after doing the 60 series conversion.

It was a little more expensive but was well worth it to me after 20+ years of manually turning that big wheel. Steering is tighter and more responsive with the simplified linkage and fresh tie rod ends.

For my conversion, I ended up not scabbing the frame where the box mounts, notching the shock tower, moving the radiator 1" to the passenger side, swapped in a steering column from a FJ55 plus built a custom relay rod and steering shaft. Took me a couple weeks to gut the old components and install but it isn't that difficult of a project. Hardest thing was sourcing good parts.

Overall I'm happy with it and would do it again. Best of luck with your cruiser

 

[wngrog]

I know there have been many threads on this, but wanted to get some feedback on my thought process.

Vehicle: 78 FJ40, 2.5" OME, 31x10.5x15 (may go 33 in future). On road mainly/ some off road; no plans for rock crawling or anything extreme.

Reason: Better driving at low speeds and tight places - just easier.

Options I have considered:

Mini-Truck Conversion
I like this from a purist perspective, it's simple, and the least expensive.
Questions:
1. Any warts, besides $$$, on using factory PS pump?
2. The entire steering linkage stays in place and isn't simplified like other installs. BUT, is the driving feel/stability any less on this conversion versus the others?

FJ60 Conversion
I like this because it simplifies linkage. But it's also more expensive. And I don't like that the factory shock tower/perch must be cut. I would use F250 shock towers. I also considered reversing the factory perches L to R; so the perch sits behind the shock versus in front. Assume I'd still trim the back side, but avoid the lateral material removal. But don't like any material removal.
Questions:
1. Does it drive better noticeably better than the mini-truck?
2. Given my driving plans, would I benefit from the taller shock towers and longer shocks?
3. What are the advantages of the straightened F250 towers over standard F250 towers? Better geometry or just less fender mods?

Electric Steering
The simplicity appeals to me as does ease of install. I would have to rebuild my manual gear box. But it's far from "Toyota-like". It doesn't require a PS pump. But it's darn expensive. And the linkage isn't simplified.
Questions:
1. Reading the install threads, looks like everyone is attached main power directly to battery. Assume this solves the fusible link issue.
2. Has anyone relocated the manual steering box forward (like the FJ60 conversion) to simplify linkage?

Writing this, it seems like the Mini-Truck is the best route assuming the FJ60 conversion doesn't offer a noticeably superior steering experience.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

100% electric via @Racer65

Effortless turning of 33’s. Even wide ones.

No belts. No cutting.

Simple. I absolutely love it.

 

[roma042987]

If you have the mechanical aptitude or can pay someone Fj60 100%. The stock configuration and obviously electric and mini truck, just leave too many tie rods or pivot points. Even with rebuilt center arm bell crank and all new rod ends they still drive like ass IMO. With a 60 box you don't even need a steering stabilizer.

 

[estoltman]

Thanks for all the feedback. I will l plan on the fJ60.

 

[wngrog]

If you have the mechanical aptitude or can pay someone Fj60 100%. The stock configuration and obviously electric and mini truck, just leave too many tie rods or pivot points. Even with rebuilt center arm bell crank and all new rod ends they still drive like ass IMO. With a 60 box you don't even need a steering stabilizer.

100% not true. I understand this mentality and do agree that less is better but I would put the drivability of the 40s I build up against anything.

I personally have a very good Saginaw setup on my 45 and love it but if you rebuild your box (redhead) center arm and add new rod ends it will be perfect with manual or electric.

You can’t forget caster shims too. That’s a huge part of people having drivability issues.

@jomelo can attest.

 

[roma042987]

100% not true. I understand this mentality and do agree that less is better but I would put the drivability of the 40s I build up against anything.

I personally have a very good Saginaw setup on my 45 and love it but if you rebuild your box (redhead) center arm and add new rod ends it will be perfect with manual or electric.

You can’t forget caster shims too. That’s a huge part of people having drivability issues.

@jomelo can attest.

I've done both and just not a fan of the factory set ups. I always use Toyota or 555 rod ends and even sourced an NOS center arm before. 4 degree shims on all of my trucks. Once you drive one with a 60 box you'll never go back and nothing else really compares.

 

[jomelo]

100% not true. I understand this mentality and do agree that less is better but I would put the drivability of the 40s I build up against anything.

I personally have a very good Saginaw setup on my 45 and love it but if you rebuild your box (redhead) center arm and add new rod ends it will be perfect with manual or electric.

You can’t forget caster shims too. That’s a huge part of people having drivability issues.

@jomelo can attest.

I’ve got three 40’s, each with different PS setups, and my favorite and best driving by far is the 78 with stock box and electric PS.

 

[wngrog]

I've done both and just not a fan of the factory set ups. I always use Toyota or 555 rod ends and even sourced an NOS center arm before. 4 degree shims on all of my trucks. Once you drive one with a 60 box you'll never go back and nothing else really compares.

I will agree that the mini truck PS is a step backwards. Not enough sugar for a dime.

No arguing that a 60/80 box is a great setup.

I’m just not a fan of adding a pump and a belt (especially to an early block) when the EPS kit is an option. 74+

 

[roma042987]

I will agree that the mini truck PS is a step backwards. Not enough sugar for a dime.

No arguing that a 60/80 box is a great setup.

I’m just not a fan of adding a pump and a belt (especially to an early block) when the EPS kit is an option. 74+

well there is part of our differences right there lol I think the F motors are best used for boat anchors so pump mounting is not an issue. I prefer to modernize my cruisers so I can enjoy them more.

 

[wngrog]

well there is part of our differences right there lol I think the F motors are best used for boat anchors so pump mounting is not an issue. I prefer to modernize my cruisers so I can enjoy them more.

I generally offer my tech to the person asking. That’s a stock 78. Obviously if he had a V8 my advice would have been different.

I also completely disagree that the 2F is a boat anchor but that’s another thread.

 

[77mustard40]

Just my $.02. I went with the minitruck PS but did so with a cheap box in hand so cost was not a concern. Picked up a Saginaw pump mount, pedestal and high pressure hose from @orangefj45 . With good condition TRE's and center arm it works well. I'm on 33's and wheel it a couple of times a year pretty hard in rocks and it gets the job done.

If I was doing it today I'd look hard at the electric @Racer65 solution. If I was building a wheeler I'd be looking at a FJ80 box

 

[82FJ40EVV]

100% not true. I understand this mentality and do agree that less is better but I would put the drivability of the 40s I build up against anything.

I personally have a very good Saginaw setup on my 45 and love it but if you rebuild your box (redhead) center arm and add new rod ends it will be perfect with manual or electric.

You can’t forget caster shims too. That’s a huge part of people having drivability issues.

@jomelo can at

100% not true. I understand this mentality and do agree that less is better but I would put the drivability of the 40s I build up against anything.

I personally have a very good Saginaw setup on my 45 and love it but if you rebuild your box (redhead) center arm and add new rod ends it will be perfect with manual or electric.

You can’t forget caster shims too. That’s a huge part of people having drivability issues.

@jomelo can attest.

@wngrog I am looking at going done the electric path and am putting the suspension together now. Do you think caster shims are necessary with ome 2.5 springs and stock shackles?

 

[wngrog]

@wngrog I am looking at going done the electric path and am putting the suspension together now. Do you think caster shims are necessary with ome 2.5 springs and stock shackles?

Yes. Toyota gives you 1* stock with flat springs. Best case. Add 4* steel with new pins via @orangefj45 and you are at 5*

That is a great place to be with a sketchy short wheelbase truck. Likely you will land 2-3*

 

[estoltman]

Positive or negative caster?

 

[wngrog]

Positive.

Chevy when they did leaf spring blazers gave them 7* caster.

 

[estoltman]

Thanks - thought I read negative somewhere which didn't make sense. I definitely need some shims.

 

[82FJ40EVV]

100% not true. I understand this mentality and do agree that less is better but I would put the drivability of the 40s I build up against anything.

I personally have a very good Saginaw setup on my 45 and love it but if you rebuild your box (redhead) center arm and add new rod ends it will be perfect with manual or electric.

You can’t forget caster shims too. That’s a huge part of people having drivability issues.

@jomelo can at

Yes. Toyota gives you 1* stock with flat springs. Best case. Add 4* steel with new pins via @orangefj45 and you are at 5*

That is a great place to be with a sketchy short wheelbase truck. Likely you will land 2-3*

Awesome advice from someone that knows.....thank you!