Post Lift Alignment Readings

hoser

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Just thought I'd post my alignment readings after my 2.5" Lift. As you can see, after the alignment job, my toe and camber settings are great but I'm still out of spec on my caster. The vehicle drives straight and doesn't wander noticeably. Less caster generally means the wheel won't "self-center" as much and is less desirable from a handling standpoint.

LF Measured (OE-Specs)
Camber -0.1° (0°±0.75°)
Caster 0.4° (3.08°±0.75°)

RF Measured (OE-Specs)
Camber -0.4° (0°±0.75°)
Caster 1.6° (3.08°±0.75°)

Total Front Toe -0.07° (0°±0.2°)
Total Rear Toe 0.01°
Thrust Angle 0.06°
 

hoser

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Anybody else have their post-lift caster specs? I am about 2.5 degrees off on the left hand side.
 

spressomon

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hoser said:
Anybody else have their post-lift caster specs? I am about 2.5 degrees off on the left hand side.
I don't have the numbers with me...post them later...but I remember the mechanic that did the alignment (post lift install) said he had to settle with getting the caster close not dead on. In fact I was going to mention this to Christo to see if he has experienced this before or not.

One symptom that may or may not be related to the caster...my LC, after the lift and realignment, takes a little more steering effort to keep in going down the highway in a straight path...
 

Landpimp

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no clue what mine were after, but they got it back in spec, but I didn't go up 2.5" because after hitting a speed bump set like that.....the wheels would come off the ground......which is not the best ;)
 
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spressomon said:
I don't have the numbers with me...post them later...but I remember the mechanic that did the alignment (post lift install) said he had to settle with getting the caster close not dead on. In fact I was going to mention this to Christo to see if he has experienced this before or not.

One symptom that may or may not be related to the caster...my LC, after the lift and realignment, takes a little more steering effort to keep in going down the highway in a straight path...
That's interesting. I just had my alignment done when they put my new tires on and the shop I used didn't say anything about trouble with the caster. I wonder if they experienced the same thing and just didn't say anything to me. Although, it tracks great no matter what speed I'm going. Is it possible there's something bent on your 100?
 
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Landpimp said:
no clue what mine were after, but they got it back in spec, but I didn't go up 2.5" because after hitting a speed bump set like that.....the wheels would come off the ground......which is not the best ;)
Pimp,
I know you said you cranked it like 4 inches just messing around, but have you tried it with the t-bars cranked to 2.5"? That's about where mine is and I have purposelly hammered a couple speed bumps and it took 'em with no maxing out. You might want to try it to see.
 

hoser

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I don't think anything is bent on my suspension. I went to the local Big-O to get it done for convenience. Perhaps I should have driven the 45 miles to my friends shop. If you guys are getting 3 degrees of caster, I'm going to go back to Big-O.

According to the manual, the caster and the camber are set with the same cam nuts. Perhaps I could get better caster readings at the expense of less favorable camber readings? Though I wouldn't do that. Here's your daily tech:

How to read the chart (using example)...

Measure the present alignment. Camber: -0°20' (-0.33°) Caster: 3°15' (3.25°)
Mark the difference between the standard value (A) and the measured value (B) on the adjustment chart. Standard value: Camber: 0°00' (0°) Caster: 3°05' (3.08°) Formula: A-B = C Camber: 0°00'- (-0°20') = 0°20' Caster: 3°05'-3°15' = -0°10'
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spressomon

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Greg B said:
That's interesting. I just had my alignment done when they put my new tires on and the shop I used didn't say anything about trouble with the caster. I wonder if they experienced the same thing and just didn't say anything to me. Although, it tracks great no matter what speed I'm going. Is it possible there's something bent on your 100?
FYi: The steering was neutral before I added the front/rr OME lift (865 rr springs originally). It didn't wander and was virtually impervious to grooved highway. Then after the lift and the subsequent front end realignment and caster adjustment it wanders a little (or more appropriately is sensitive at the steering wheel) and the same grooved highway makes it wander nervously. I assumed it was because the shop couldn't get the caster back to specs.
 

Landpimp

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ya know, i think your right, I was up 4", now 2.5" over stock..........you got a better memory than me :)

Greg B said:
Pimp,
I know you said you cranked it like 4 inches just messing around, but have you tried it with the t-bars cranked to 2.5"? That's about where mine is and I have purposelly hammered a couple speed bumps and it took 'em with no maxing out. You might want to try it to see.
 

hoser

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Spresso--can you post your alignment specs when you get a chance? Or anybody with 2.5" of lift?

I'm looking into adjustable upper ball joints for some caster correction. Here's an example from another vehicle.
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100 TD

 
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Anymore info on the source of these Hoser, and do they make one already for the 100?
 

CTapia

 
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:beer: Hoser and I tweaked my suspension and installed the Slee diff drop over the weekend. I ended up with 2.5" lift up front and 3.0" in the rear. I followed up and had my 315 TKOs installed and had the truck aligned. Prior to the aligment, the truck seemed to wander quite of bit. The ride now is much better however there still some and perhaps due to the caster being out of spec? Here's my alignment numbers from the print out:

Before
______________
Left:
Camber: -0.2
Caster: 0.2
Toe: -0.02

Right:
Camber: 0.5
Caster: -.4
Toe: 1.47


Cross Camber: 0.7
Cross Caster: 0.3
Total Toe: 1.45
Set back: -0.34


After
_______________
Left:
Camber: -.01
Caster: 1.0
Toe: -0.00

Right:
Camber: 0.0
Caster: 1.5
Toe: 0.02


Cross Camber: -0.2
Cross Caster: -0.5
Total Toe: 0.02
Set back: -0.20

Basically, my caster is off on both sides. Hoser, If I understand this correctly, your caster is also off on both off on the right hand side?
Last but not least, I want thank Hoser for his help!! Super nice guy and without his air impact gun it would have been a pain in the a** to remove some of the hardware to install the diff drop bracket! :beer: :beer: :cheers:
Picture 006 web.jpg
 
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hoser

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100 TD said:
Anymore info on the source of these Hoser, and do they make one already for the 100?
100TD, I haven't looked any further into caster correction yet. But if I find something, I'll be sure and let you know. Hopefully somebody will offer replacement upper control arms that allow higher angularity and better caster built into it. Here's a picture of the Tundra upper control arm from Total Chaos. If you really want more suspension options for your 100, let these guys know. I emailed them about fabbing 100 series parts and received this reply:

"Thank you for your inquiry with TOTAL CHAOS. We might be interested in expanding the product line. To begin send me web site info or forum info on those vehicles to begin the research process. If you know anyone who has gone SAS and is willing to supply us upper and lowers with spindles have them contact us."


TOTAL CHAOS Fabrication
159 North Maple St Unit # J
Corona, CA%#@&%#@&%#@& 92880
951-737-9682 p.
951-737-9006 f.
www.chaosfab.com
tunuca9_06.jpg
 

hoser

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CTapia said:
:beer: Hoser and I tweaked my suspension and installed the Slee diff drop over the weekend... Basically, my caster is off on both sides. Hoser, If I understand this correctly, your caster is also off on both off on the right hand side?
Last but not least, I want thank Hoser for his help!! Super nice guy and without his air impact gun it would have been a pain in the a** to remove some of the hardware to install the diff drop bracket! :beer: :beer: :cheers:
CTapia, you're welcome but you still owe me a 6-pack of:beer: :flipoff2:
Yes, my caster is 2-3 degrees less than ideal but at least it is still in the positive. You and Spressomon both confirmed OEM specs are beyond the range of adjustment on a lifted 100. Like all mods, everything is a compromise. I've read somewhere that its recommended to dial in a little added "Toe-in" when going with larger diameter tires (sidewalls) to compensate for the added sidewall flex. I just went with stock settings though.
 

CTapia

 
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hoser said:
CTapia, you're welcome but you still owe me a 6-pack of:beer: :flipoff2:
Yes, my caster is 2-3 degrees less than ideal but at least it is still in the positive. You and Spressomon both confirmed OEM specs are beyond the range of adjustment on a lifted 100. Like all mods, everything is a compromise. I've read somewhere that its recommended to dial in a little added "Toe-in" when going with larger diameter tires (sidewalls) to compensate for the added sidewall flex. I just went with stock settings though.
Hoser,

Yes I do owe you! :doh: I'll bring a 12-pack next go around! :beer: On a related matter , I spoke with Christo this morning regarding the pogo stick feeling that I'm getting on the LX. What he recommends is to drop the adjustment (lift) down a bit. I'm thinking of going down to 2" up front and 2.5 in the rear. From what I recall, I"ll have to experiment with a bent bracket on the rear to allow this, correct?
I also recall that using the maximum setting (without the added aluminum bracket) I should only expect around 1.5" of lift?
For the front, do you think I can get a way and used the modified thingie maggies for 2" lift?
 
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I went up 2.5 inches. O issues after the lift and 0 issues getting back in spec-although I was told it was a huge pain in the ass.
 
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I went up 2.75 on the front, (I was a little low to begin with) and 2.5 - 3.0 on the rear and have had no alignment issues of any kind.

I drove it without an alignment for a week and could definitely tell it needed some adjustment. The funny part was that when it was out of alignment, the tires would squeal a lot. If it was not pointing straight, they were squealing.

I had the alignment done when I had my 295's installed. Since then, it tracks just as straight as when it was stock. It has actually surprised me how well it has handled the lift and tires compared to some of the other rigs I have lifted in the past.
 

hoser

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CTapia said:
Hoser,

Yes I do owe you! :doh: I'll bring a 12-pack next go around! :beer: On a related matter , I spoke with Christo this morning regarding the pogo stick feeling that I'm getting on the LX. What he recommends is to drop the adjustment (lift) down a bit. I'm thinking of going down to 2" up front and 2.5 in the rear. From what I recall, I"ll have to experiment with a bent bracket on the rear to allow this, correct?
I also recall that using the maximum setting (without the added aluminum bracket) I should only expect around 1.5" of lift?
For the front, do you think I can get a way and used the modified thingie maggies for 2" lift?
CTapia, I didn't notice much difference in ride quality from 2" to 2.5" but there is enough adjustment there for you to easily experiment with it. Just loosen the nut and slide it down about 5/16" I usually keep the suspension setting on #2 and it rides fairly well. On the rear, the stock bracket only allows for 1-1.5" of lift. You can space the the aluminum bracket out with more aluminum stock or something. Or you can try bending the bracket with some kind of vise (brake). You need about 3/8" so the nut can clear.

But before you do any of that. What is the tire pressure in your new AT/KO's? Maybe try airing down a bit. My experience with those tires is that they ride more harsh than most.
 

hoser

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Jukelemon or Greg, do you have the computer print-out for your alignment? I was a little suspicious that my alignment guy just didn't have the skills to get it within spec. I realize it is tough though. My rig drives and tracks okay but it isn't like stock. If I can *get* more caster, I'd like to get it.
 

CTapia

 
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hoser said:
CTapia, I didn't notice much difference in ride quality from 2" to 2.5" but there is enough adjustment there for you to easily experiment with it. Just loosen the nut and slide it down about 5/16" I usually keep the suspension setting on #2 and it rides fairly well. On the rear, the stock bracket only allows for 1-1.5" of lift. You can space the the aluminum bracket out with more aluminum stock or something. Or you can try bending the bracket with some kind of vise (brake). You need about 3/8" so the nut can clear.

But before you do any of that. What is the tire pressure in your new AT/KO's? Maybe try airing down a bit. My experience with those tires is that they ride more harsh than most.
The tires were aired up around 42 PSI, so I air them down to 38 this morning. Perhaps a slight improvement.
What I noticed is that if I set the truck in my new low mode and have it at just in gear and applying and releasing the brakes so that it rocks back in forth, the pogo effect is not there. I can't really test this much since the it reverts back to normal mode after I hit 20 MPH. I'll experiment some more. The feeling is like the truck is not sitting on the springs but rather some jello/air. Sorry, it's the best I can describe it.
 
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