Possible to just replace the fuel pump arm rather than the whole pump? (1 Viewer)

Joined
Jan 6, 2019
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Beaufort, SC
I am currently in process of replacing the camshaft on my 1973 FJ40. By the looks of the camshaft, it looks like it ran with very little oil in the crankcase. It is very pitted and worn with scorch marks on all lobes. There is actually a decent channel in the eccentric lobe that actuates the fuel pump. What I want to know is if i can just get the arm for the pump because the pump it self works with no flaws, I don't want to have to spend a ton of money on another pump if its just the arm thats worn. I'm pretty certain that running a new cam on that fuel pump arm would carve another channel in that lobe. I am also planning on putting a Melling cam in it since it is cheaper than SOR's cams but not so cheap that I'm skeptical of its quality, If you have any other suggestions on camshafts then let me know, thanks!

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Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
29
Location
Beaufort, SC
I just took my Old fuel pump off my 77. BE happy to send it your way if it helps? I'm not sure if it works but odds are it does. Only replaced as I am going with new with everything on engine.
I can post some pics if interested. It looks pretty good.
hell yeah, that would be awesome! what price are you looking at?
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
1,438
Location
Craig, CO
 
 
You used to be able to find the diaphragms and gaskets for the older fuel pumps, but that is all gone now. You would have to scrap out a pump to find that arm, but the you will probably have little success separating the diaphragms and covers to get inside to repair.

Its a pity, as the pumps were rebuildable, but without parts to do it, it is a waste of time to even open one up. I don't think you can really get the older style pumps. Looks like NAPA and such carry the newer pumps with the return fuel line on them for the FJ60. If you use that pump, REMEMBER to get the plastic/fiber spacer that goes under the pump. The spacer was added for heat dissipation, but without it the arm gets crammed onto the cam and you will destroy the arm and ruin your cam again.

A second thought, total low budget, weld new metal on to that arm in the wear, grind it down flat and polish it up. Might work.
 

ToyotaMatt

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you should NOT attempt to replace that worn arm in any way , it's staked in place with 2 chrome plates BB balls , like on the

the 7" timing mark on a fly wheel

i would also have your cam shaft evaluated bu a machine shop and professionally told why or given the possible list of reasons why

you mechanical pump arm oscillating on a round offset cam round lobe , would dig in like that in the first place ?


i have never seen this before , or anything close ?

maybe a lack of lubrication like a clogged oil pump stainer from peritex over use on oil pan re-seal job

my gears are turning hard on this and lack of oil screams the smoking gun here


however in my years of installing a new oem fuel pumps of all styles and types i recall a piece of paper being in a oem Toyota

parts box , like a update flyer or superseded part # install service bulletin ?

\, that a land cruiser early Phillps head srcew driver type pump assy. and it calls for a spacer ?

now adays no spacer on Phillips head pumps ONLY on a 1/79-9-87 updated stamped sheet metal type updated pump ...

maybe paul; remembers this ? @3_puppies , or @Living in the Past , can shed light on the whole spacer then no spacer topic ?







i am also gonna call it out now , that might just be a original or dealer replaced under warranty pump

it retains proudly the TEq Logo cast on side as well as all the oem parts maker KYOSAN DENKI logos and cast stamps etc



ALL kyosan re-box oem pumps i have ever seen same exact pump in every way , have the TEq logo ground off with a spinning router

bit or metal; type forsner bit of some kind Toyota was very very territorial like a rabid dog back then about there name on well

any dam part that was not sold at a dealer ........

there were OEM toyota genuine parts RE-BOX company's running wild in japan ,. like beck arnley , napa eclin and many others


there was NO china or south east asia knock technology yet under development to say the least

like i mention , nobody went to a toyota dealer to be hosed on a $200-300$ + same exact pump 110% as napa sold and local track auto stc....all day long

only if you brought your land cruiser in to a dealer for service would you ever have a TEq logo intact pump kyosan installed ....

just some 411 on the age timeline history that might help explain also the odd advanced wear patterns that smoked that pump hard and maybe the cam too \?

sor.com would be 1st choice on a new cam hands down ..........

a needed now new pump ...........

you have options on the table now ....... 🙂


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Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
1,438
Location
Craig, CO
 
 
Ya, I wasn't saying his original pump needed the spacer, it did not. What I was emphasizing is that if you went to the parts store and found a new one, all he will get is the new style with 3 lines. He cannot just bolt the new style on without a spacer or there will be problems.

The wear pattern is bizarre for sure. They naturally wear a shiny spot on the arm, but the deep groves and side wear is just really weird, even if lack of oil was the issue, why the grooves. This engine probably needs far more than a new cam.

Matt, you're right on the Kyosan replacements, no TEQ emblem. I got a Aisin water pump from NAPA once, same deal, identical in every way to the original pump I took off my FJ60, except the raised circle that had TEQ was ground out. Tells me it was the same mold.
 

ToyotaMatt

Factory Focus-Point Mind-Set Approach
Supporting Vendor
Joined
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Messages
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Ya, I wasn't saying his original pump needed the spacer, it did not. What I was emphasizing is that if you went to the parts store and found a new one, all he will get is the new style with 3 lines. He cannot just bolt the new style on without a spacer or there will be problems.

The wear pattern is bizarre for sure. They naturally wear a shiny spot on the arm, but the deep groves and side wear is just really weird, even if lack of oil was the issue, why the grooves. This engine probably needs far more than a new cam.

Matt, you're right on the Kyosan replacements, no TEQ emblem. I got a Aisin water pump from NAPA once, same deal, identical in every way to the original pump I took off my FJ60, except the raised circle that had TEQ was ground out. Tells me it was the same mold.

i have found myself still scratching my head on that cam shaft fuel pump lobe scoring and the depth of the scoring ?

that's a first

But , i can personally vouch for the SOR Cam Shafts and there kits , never a issue for start to a long term time later , years

note : NO affiliatio
n


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Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
29
Location
Beaufort, SC
You used to be able to find the diaphragms and gaskets for the older fuel pumps, but that is all gone now. You would have to scrap out a pump to find that arm, but the you will probably have little success separating the diaphragms and covers to get inside to repair.

Its a pity, as the pumps were rebuildable, but without parts to do it, it is a waste of time to even open one up. I don't think you can really get the older style pumps. Looks like NAPA and such carry the newer pumps with the return fuel line on them for the FJ60. If you use that pump, REMEMBER to get the plastic/fiber spacer that goes under the pump. The spacer was added for heat dissipation, but without it the arm gets crammed onto the cam and you will destroy the arm and ruin your cam again.

A second thought, total low budget, weld new metal on to that arm in the wear, grind it down flat and polish it up. Might work.
yeah, i got the pump apart to clean out a bunch of clay, probably another reason it ran like garbage. maybe I could find the body to one and transfer the internals.
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
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Location
Near Omaha Ne
You used to be able to find the diaphragms and gaskets for the older fuel pumps, but that is all gone now. You would have to scrap out a pump to find that arm, but the you will probably have little success separating the diaphragms and covers to get inside to repair.

Its a pity, as the pumps were rebuildable, but without parts to do it, it is a waste of time to even open one up. I don't think you can really get the older style pumps. Looks like NAPA and such carry the newer pumps with the return fuel line on them for the FJ60. If you use that pump, REMEMBER to get the plastic/fiber spacer that goes under the pump. The spacer was added for heat dissipation, but without it the arm gets crammed onto the cam and you will destroy the arm and ruin your cam again.

A second thought, total low budget, weld new metal on to that arm in the wear, grind it down flat and polish it up. Might work.
Thought about saying the same thing. You might be able to take it to a machine shop and have them do it.
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
29
Location
Beaufort, SC
you should NOT attempt to replace that worn arm in any way , it's staked in place with 2 chrome plates BB balls , like on the

the 7" timing mark on a fly wheel

i would also have your cam shaft evaluated bu a machine shop and professionally told why or given the possible list of reasons why

you mechanical pump arm oscillating on a round offset cam round lobe , would dig in like that in the first place ?


i have never seen this before , or anything close ?

maybe a lack of lubrication like a clogged oil pump stainer from peritex over use on oil pan re-seal job

my gears are turning hard on this and lack of oil screams the smoking gun here


however in my years of installing a new oem fuel pumps of all styles and types i recall a piece of paper being in a oem Toyota

parts box , like a update flyer or superseded part # install service bulletin ?

\, that a land cruiser early Phillps head srcew driver type pump assy. and it calls for a spacer ?

now adays no spacer on Phillips head pumps ONLY on a 1/79-9-87 updated stamped sheet metal type updated pump ...

maybe paul; remembers this ? @3_puppies , or @Living in the Past , can shed light on the whole spacer then no spacer topic ?







i am also gonna call it out now , that might just be a original or dealer replaced under warranty pump

it retains proudly the TEq Logo cast on side as well as all the oem parts maker KYOSAN DENKI logos and cast stamps etc



ALL kyosan re-box oem pumps i have ever seen same exact pump in every way , have the TEq logo ground off with a spinning router

bit or metal; type forsner bit of some kind Toyota was very very territorial like a rabid dog back then about there name on well

any dam part that was not sold at a dealer ........

there were OEM toyota genuine parts RE-BOX company's running wild in japan ,. like beck arnley , napa eclin and many others


there was NO china or south east asia knock technology yet under development to say the least

like i mention , nobody went to a toyota dealer to be hosed on a $200-300$ + same exact pump 110% as napa sold and local track auto stc....all day long

only if you brought your land cruiser in to a dealer for service would you ever have a TEq logo intact pump kyosan installed ....

just some 411 on the age timeline history that might help explain also the odd advanced wear patterns that smoked that pump hard and maybe the cam too \?

sor.com would be 1st choice on a new cam hands down ..........

a needed now new pump ...........

you have options on the table now ....... 🙂


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View attachment 2485766
I suspected that the engine probably ran with just enough oil to get to the oil pump and supply lubrication to the majority of the engine, but maybe not quite enough for it to be flung by the crankshaft onto the camshaft, because that is the main way the camshaft is provided with oil. I also did find some interesting grit in the motor, it almost looked like georgia clay. The rest of the engine looks pretty good considering how old the car is, how that cam looked, and that grit I found. Cylinder walls look glazed, but not scored, Timing gears also had shown very little wear.
You used to be able to find the diaphragms and gaskets for the older fuel pumps, but that is all gone now. You would have to scrap out a pump to find that arm, but the you will probably have little success separating the diaphragms and covers to get inside to repair.

Its a pity, as the pumps were rebuildable, but without parts to do it, it is a waste of time to even open one up. I don't think you can really get the older style pumps. Looks like NAPA and such carry the newer pumps with the return fuel line on them for the FJ60. If you use that pump, REMEMBER to get the plastic/fiber spacer that goes under the pump. The spacer was added for heat dissipation, but without it the arm gets crammed onto the cam and you will destroy the arm and ruin your cam again.

A second thought, total low budget, weld new metal on to that arm in the wear, grind it down flat and polish it up. Might work.
I did consider welding onto the arm to put some good, new metal on it. I just have to convince my dad that it is a good idea. (its a father son project)
 
Last edited:

ToyotaMatt

Factory Focus-Point Mind-Set Approach
Supporting Vendor
Joined
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Messages
12,665
Location
EAST COAST
 
 
I suspected that the

I did consider welding onto the arm to put some good, new metal on it. I just have to convince my dad that it is a good idea. (its a father son project)
motor ran low on oil

then there will be a natural high and low spot on the arm , too mi-nute to see with the naked eye

KYOSAN DENKI , JAPAN , True's up , or makes the face of the arm perfect post stamping of the metal

see what looks like a were mark that's a fine perfection technique , much like decking a set of manifolds or turning drums or rotors

eliminating any hi spots for a even keel feel on a perfectly flat surface cam lobe

see example below , i thought they were test run prior to sale , but years ago i contacted KYOSAN USA and this i what i was told

kinda like balancing a tire if you will


note all these are NoS OEM pumps :




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Last edited:

ToyotaMatt

Factory Focus-Point Mind-Set Approach
Supporting Vendor
Joined
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Messages
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The early FJ25/40
Has them

and this 12-78 also has the final decking to make contact surface perfect if u will

95DF6443-9C13-459B-818C-115C7F9ADEF2.jpeg
 
Joined
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Messages
1,438
Location
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Matt, you solved the funny wear pattern. I forgot the early/original pumps had that stacked steel arm versus the stamped arm. That is why his poor cam has those three deep grooves. Then someone put in a newer pump. It wore down into the groove created by the old arm, hence the odd wear on his current fuel pump.

I had another thought on this engine. While crank splash does throw oil on the cam, doesn't most of the oiling for the cam lobes come from what runs off the valves and rocker arms and down over the pushrods and lifters. Perhaps this truck had a top end oiling problem.

Reeve, is the rocker arm shaft all wore down and ruined? Did this engine have the little copper line running up to the top of the rocker arm/head? F engines don't send oil any other way up to the head except for the little copper line above and behind the distributor area under the lifter cover.
 

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