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popping birfield advice

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by semlin, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. semlin

    semlin discouraged user

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    Sigh, :mad:

    So after the repack I am getting a steadily worse clunking out of my DS birf (the one that previous grenaded and was rebuilt in feb). Before the repack it had popped once or twice on tight left turns. Up until this weekend it was starting to pop more consistently on tight left turns under full thottle. This weekend made the mistake of trying a tight turn in 4-lo on pavement. Since then, it is popping much more on left turns and some rights and seems to be getting worse. I am going to pull and replace shortly while I can still reuse some of my gaskets.

    Anyway, as past posts will attest there is not much left in the #6 fund these days! I have figured out a few options and would be interested to hear what people thought

    1. pull it and get it rebuilt a second time locally for $75CDN (3 year warranty) or get the guy who rebuilt it the first time to rebuild for free (and face this again in 6 months?).

    2. local CV shop says they can machine an ABS sensor slot into the available non abs aftermarket birfield that is $125 here. Total cost about $200 and they would warranty it for 3 years . I could then smurfield it for another $50.

    3. buy the "japanese" aftermarket birf from Manafre for about $300 CDN inc shipping then get it smurfielded before installing for another $50

    4. buy a used OEM birfield for $300, rebuild it for $75 (3yr warranty) and smurfield it for $50.

    5. Buy a newfield for $450 CDN

    6. buy OEM for $750 CDN

    Anyway, I don't much like any of these choices much and would wlecome comments or other options? Can anyone comment on the quality of the Manafre birf? Can you rebuild a birf twice? I am thinking my old one is better as a trail spare and I would rather just pop a new one in.
     
  2. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr

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    My vote: OEM from CDan...and maybe grease the wheels with some LaBatts (or whatever that Canadian beer is...). :D

    -H-
     
  3. Junk

    Junk

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    I would get it rebuilt and keep it for a trail only spare.

    Get a new OEM birf from Cdan or elsewhere.

    I would not throw down that much cash for a used birf - you have no idea what you are getting.
     
  4. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    Simon,

    I'll sharpen my pencil as pointy as I can for you. I really think you should get an OEM new.


    D-
     
  5. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    From what I've heard, Smurfed birfs are not good for full time 4wd's. Fast wear apparently.
     
  6. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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  7. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    Generally the most birfields cannot be rebuilt do to the wear on the ball bearing channels in the stub axle bell. Depending upon the wear, you could put new balls / cage / inner race [if available new], which would take up some of slop / clearance / wear. This method doesn't reduce the stress / fatigue of the stub axle bell.

    Tough choice and if cash flow is tight, I might lean towards the used OEM birfield and get it smurfed and get good performance for a decent price.

    The best possible option & of course the most expensive is the OEM birfield from CDan, and then send it over to Bobby Long, and have him treat the birfield.

    Joe
     
  8. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    [quote author=Landpimp link=board=2;threadid=8856;start=msg77180#msg77180 date=1071720984]
    Might be a Longfield for the 80 coming out soon, next month?

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=199819&pagenumber=4

    John H
    [/quote]

    I have been running them in the ShortBus since July. Send Bobby two new oem birfields and he treated them for me.

    I think one of the big reason we were breaking so many is that we were using old clickers for trail spares.

    We are also working on getting new units made by the same people as Toyota. Have two in stock now. Haven't tested them yet snce the Longfields has not broken yet.
     
  9. Klunky Chris

    Klunky Chris

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    rememebr that smurfs/longs/news all use the heat treating to effectively *soften* the metal (reduce rockwell hardness)

    This works great for overall strength because the steel is less brittle, but it also wears faster.

    how long a treated birf will last in a daily driver full time 4WD is the real issue. No-one can really even give an estimate. (that I've heard yet) 3/4 as long as an OEM hardness? 1/2? 1/4? 1/8? Who knows? ???
    I bought new OEM and left it OEM. The reason mine broke is from lack of mainenance from the PO (as you can tell from the rusty scrap in my avatar)
    I figured if an OEM lasted 165k miles with little to no maintenance, that was the way to go for me.
    I have heard less than favorable remarks made about the Newfields. Quality of steel isn't as good maybe?

    HTH!
     
  10. semlin

    semlin discouraged user

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    thanks for the comments guys. I agree that oem new is best, but I just can't blow that cost by my better half right now. I am looking at a used oem smurfed with some kind assistance from someone on this board. Travis will inspect the birf's condition when he has it apart. I guess I'll be a guinea pig on how long a treated birf lasts in an 80 daily driver.

    Warthog, the local cv shops claim you can rebuild them at least twice. The one clicking right now was rebuilt with oversized balls 8 months ago, but the shop that did it is out of business so not sure if it's them or the process. I did notice when I had it out last month that it was much stiffer to move than the other side (though still smooth), but I figured that's because the other side was worn.
     
  11. DanKunz

    DanKunz SILVER Star

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    So, rebuild 8 months ago + new smurfed used one + tear down + build up...

    Why is OEM too pricey?

    I would bite the bullet and do it right one time.
     
  12. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr

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    Semlin,

    I'd explain the the better half that it is a necessity to do the job correctly the first time. Add in the fact that you can get what I would consider a great deal from CDan for the correct OEM part. Emphasize the savings vs. doing it again for more $$ less than a year down the road.

    I personally think you'd be very dissapointed to have to tear it apart twice. Maybe ditch the smurfing (isn't that a druggie/tweeker term?) if you're worried about total cost, as I bet the new OEM birf would be better than an aftermarket treated birf!

    Do the right thing man!

    -H-
     
  13. Pitbull

    Pitbull

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    [quote author=semlin link=board=2;threadid=8856;start=msg76536#msg76536 date=1071607141]

    1. pull it and get it rebuilt a second time locally for $75CDN (3 year warranty) or get the guy who rebuilt it the first time to rebuild for free (and face this again in 6 months?).

    2. local CV shop says they can machine an ABS sensor slot into the available non abs aftermarket birfield that is $125 here. Total cost about $200 and they would warranty it for 3 years . I could then smurfield it for another $50.

    3. buy the "japanese" aftermarket birf from Manafre for about $300 CDN inc shipping then get it smurfielded before installing for another $50

    4. buy a used OEM birfield for $300, rebuild it for $75 (3yr warranty) and smurfield it for $50.

    5. Buy a newfield for $450 CDN

    6. buy OEM for $750 CDN
    [/quote]

    What are these prices in US dollars?
     
  14. SHAMROX80

    SHAMROX80

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    I believe the current exchange rate is roughly .75
     
  15. Riley

    Riley

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    To convert from CDN to US - multiple the CDN by .75

    In other words:

    CDN * .75 = $US

    However even after considering the exchange, things are usually cheaper in the US.
     
  16. Safado

    Safado

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    Ok, so here goes nothing.

    I have long read about experiences that all of you have had with your bir/long/smur/newfields and have to say that I'm a bit confused. I know what a birfield is and what it does, but am not sure the differences and benefits of every other Xfield mentioned. From what I've gathered the difference seems to be some type of treatment made to each. If anyone can shed some light on the differences and benefits I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
     
  17. DanKunz

    DanKunz SILVER Star

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    pretty much all of the non-OEM birfields are the same concept...

    You take a stock birf, heat and cryo treat it...and make it less vulnerable to a brittle failure.

    The birf will essentially be able to flex a bit more before grenading.

    that is the most basic way to state it I think :D :cheers:
     
  18. Safado

    Safado

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    Thanks Dan,

    So what's the difference in each? Is one treated more than the other? Heated more? Cooled more? What's benifits of one Xfield over the other?
     
  19. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    The OEM birfield has been heat treated / annealed to a certain "hardness".

    The "Newfields" are similar to the OEM's but are a little "harder" for wear / strength.

    The "Longfields" & "Profields" are brand new birfields, which are a little thicker in the bell channel and then treated to reduce the hardness / brittleness of the OEM specifications.

    The "Smurfields" are a similar / identical process conducted on YOUR used OEM birfield. I haven't noticed if the smurfields have removed the welded spring ring on the bell.

    There is a set of smurfields being run in an awd drive cruiser - no problems to date. I have three smurfields on my bench & a pair of profields waiting to go into my other cruisers.

    When I do the birfield maintenance on the 80, I will probably have the birfs treated........
     
  20. semlin

    semlin discouraged user

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    I believe Smurfs are little blue elves who inhabit chidren's books originating from Sweden. Not sure about tweakers.

    I guess having asked you all for advice I'm now going to ignore it! Buying a new oem is obviously the safest course, but the difference in cost is huge and will kill my lift plans for another 6 months.

    If I understand the anecdotal evidence on oem 80 birfields, they will last a long long time under highway use as long as you repack them regularly. I've never heard of one going from highway use except from lack of maintenance. Ergo, if a used oem birf has never suffered from lack of grease and never been offroad, it should be fine. My funeral if I am wrong but on the bright side I'll have another trail spare and may yet beat Dan's birfield removal record with all the practice.

    The other question is whether the smurfield/longfield process will result in premature wear in an 80 because of fulltime 4wd. No one knows until people run them for a while. For $40 the smurf birf should be stronger on the trail and Travis will take apart the birf and inspect it for me... so I'll try