please help me to diagnose

[domik007]

What can be wrong with this B (3.0 diesel) Toyota engine ? that what happend:
I submerged the air intake under water
The next day we pulled the glow plugs out to dry it out and were able to get it started again
I did a few repairs and have driven it about 200 miles since
The engine ideals very high and smokes heavily
I took it to a place called Diesel Specialists to get an estimate
They thought that the fuel pump needs to be rebuilt
It did smoke before I submerged it but that was only when I floored it...
My opinion is that rings or valves are not OK... I will find out about compression maybe tomorrow ...why would fuel (injection) pump broke from this? Do you know place (in USA .. or Canada) where I can rebild this pump? how much I can expect to pay?

 

[cruiser_guy]

Diesel engines do NOT like to ingest water, that's why there is a water separator! A slight amount of water in the injectors or injection pump causes corrosion and then causes the pump and injectors to malfunction.

NW Fuel Injection in Port Kells (Surrey, B.C.) is good. You can budget $500 - 1000 easy! You really need to bring the whole truck in as it will need to be re-timed as well. Diesel fuel injection stuff is beyond the scope of the home mechanic and most regular mechanics.

 

[2 Bees]

Water ingestion in a Diesel ouch!

Worst case. Water does not compress that well plus diesel compression 430psi = $$$ This is what happens in a diesel that ingests water.

1: water is ingested. 2: then the valves close. 3: crank & piston moves to compression stroke. 4: piston moves up to top of compression stroke. 5: the water starts to compress - but water does not compress that well. 6: so something has to give. 7: con rod goes through the piston, piston breaks, head cracks and the crank breaks = $$$$

Gas engines are forgiving diesels are not.

 

[canucksafari]

You did not describe the smoke, but given that they think it is the IP than I am assuming you do not have an engine oil smoke. If it is just your IP, then you are getting off very lucky.

As Cruiser_Guy says, NW Fuel Injection has a good rep. IMO, I would not take it to Valley Fuel Injection. The down side with NW Fuel Injections is that they will not set-up some JDM units because they don't feel they have the expertise. At least they are honest right up front - not like some other places. If you just have them rebuild the IP, it would require you to drop the IP and for you to re-install it. Once back on your truck with the timing marks lined up, you can then take it to a shop like ATEB in Burnaby and have them time it exactly. They know the JDM diesels very well and have the right tools. Of course, you can get ATEB to pull it and re-install it if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself. Whereever you are and whoever you get to do the work, I recommend you make sure you don't end up paying for their learning curve.

 

[roscoFJ73]

What can be wrong with this B (3.0 diesel) Toyota engine ? that what happend:
I submerged the air intake under water
The next day we pulled the glow plugs out to dry it out and were able to get it started again
I did a few repairs and have driven it about 200 miles since
The engine ideals very high and smokes heavily
I took it to a place called Diesel Specialists to get an estimate
They thought that the fuel pump needs to be rebuilt
It did smoke before I submerged it but that was only when I floored it...
My opinion is that rings or valves are not OK... I will find out about compression maybe tomorrow ...why would fuel (injection) pump broke from this? Do you know place (in USA .. or Canada) where I can rebild this pump? how much I can expect to pay?

If you submerged the air intake and got water into the engine ,I cant see why the pump would need a rebuild.
The pump is air/water tight and can operate completely submerged.

I would do the compression test 1st.
If the engine has internal damage an expensive pump rebuild is pointless.

 

[gerg]

Sorry to hear about your engine woes. Personally, I'd drive it into the ground and buy a used 3B for a grand. Rebuilding the injection pump on that motor is a waste. You might as well buy a nice gold snout ring for your pet piggy.
Ohh, and blowing an engine on purpose can actually be kinda fun.
Good luck
G

 

[domik007]

about the smoke :
It kinda changes color it is mostly a white grey but it does have a blue hew too it sometimes it is darker then others. The compression seems to be fine. When we had the glow plugs out and the pistons all make it to TDC and BDC.
So my guess is that pistons/rings/valves are OK. What is unexplainable is the engine idells very high - that why it maybe a fuel system (pomp or ?)

Thanks for all your replys!

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

If you submerged the air intake and got water into the engine ,I cant see why the pump would need a rebuild.
The pump is air/water tight and can operate completely submerged.

I would do the compression test 1st.
If the engine has internal damage an expensive pump rebuild is pointless.

I am with Rosco.
There is no way the injection pump will suffer from hydrolocking the engine. The pump is a completely sealed system. Even the injectors should not suffer in the above scenario.
The compression test will tell.

 

[brownbear]

it is possible the airlines that go to the IP pump got some water in them, and the pneumatic governor area got wet and maybe still is.

pull the drain plug on the pneumatic governor area to drain the oil/water.

Check that that diaphragm on the governor is OK. The throttle is control with air pressure sensed across the butterfly so it is possible some contamination got in there and is causing this high idle and smoke.

 

[UpsideDown]

it is possible the airlines that go to the IP pump got some water in them, and the pneumatic governor area got wet and maybe still is.

pull the drain plug on the pneumatic governor area to drain the oil/water.

Check that that diaphragm on the governor is OK. The throttle is control with air pressure sensed across the butterfly so it is possible some contamination got in there and is causing this high idle and smoke.

I have seen this exact scenario.... try replacing the diaphragm.

 

[brownbear]

start with the 20 dollar fixes first.

since it has ran for 200 miles I think that major internal damage would have been found prior. If he really bent a valve or rod do you really think he could have driven 200 miles. I don't.

 

[domik007]

thanks againg guys !
it does give me some hope that I can fix it not spending 1000's of $... as far as replacing the diaphragm ... rpm (trottle) in B engine is control by regular line from accelerator pedal unlike 3B. If that is what you are talking about it is not a case here ...
my guess is maybe there some air getting to the fuel system (white smoke is present) but because smoke is blue a little also, maybe head has crack and some oil is getting to combastion chamber...
Sorry for my english and vocabulary (I got medical education and english is not my native ..

 

[Mad Jack]

about the smoke :
It kinda changes color it is mostly a white grey but it does have a blue hew too it sometimes it is darker then others. The compression seems to be fine. When we had the glow plugs out and the pistons all make it to TDC and BDC.
So my guess is that pistons/rings/valves are OK. What is unexplainable is the engine idells very high - that why it maybe a fuel system (pomp or ?)

Thanks for all your replys!

First, I tend to agree with brownbear and upsidedown. Head for the diaphragm/governer first. Did you hit the water with any kind of force that would push it into the engine compartment? If so, I have seen water do damage to springs and arms before. That would definitely throw the idle off as well.

I quoted you to ask if you really did do the compression test. Piston movement in all cylinders doesn't necessarily mean that all components are ok as I am sure you know. You had mentioned the smoke thing when flooring it before this happened. If it was excessive a compression test could help understand better if there is wear developing. I still would think about doing a compression test just to get a better feel for the state of the engine. Could help you decide how much cash you just want to throw at the engine

 

[83bj60]

What can be wrong with this B (3.0 diesel) Toyota engine ? that what happend:
I submerged the air intake under water
The next day we pulled the glow plugs out to dry it out and were able to get it started again

You submerged your intake and took the glow plugs out THE NEXT DAY?! Why did you let it sit with water in its belly that long?! I would have drained the oil pan, separate the water, refill, take the the glow plugs out, crank it, get rid of the water while there was still oil on the cylinder walls and the engine was warm enough to evaporate the rest!

Sorry for my strong reaction, but what made you wait so long?!

I did a few repairs and have driven it about 200 miles since
The engine ideals very high and smokes heavily
I took it to a place called Diesel Specialists to get an estimate
They thought that the fuel pump needs to be rebuilt

That's bull****. Water got inside the combustion chamber, not in the fuel. Go to a place where the know how to do a proper diagnosis.

I will find out about compression maybe tomorrow ...why would fuel (injection) pump broke from this? Do you know place (in USA .. or Canada) where I can rebild this pump? how much I can expect to pay?

I was quoted $1500-$2000 once where I live, but since I never had to do it, the figure mat not be accurate. but I doubt it's that.

Anyway, about the smoke, do your compresion test and come back with figures, maybe the smoke is simply water evaporating from the oil. Also check to see whether a lot of smoke is coming out from the vent tube, if there is significantly more, there could indeed be a problem with compression. You did flush the engine oil and at least separate the water before restarting the engine, didn't you?

As for the high idle, I presume the leather diaphragm probably got damaged and would have to be replaced. Inexpensive repair, but that can be a bitch to do.

Good luck, Man!

 

[domik007]

all fluids and oil has been change in truck (axels, trans etc).
Does B engine has diaphragm (pneumatic governor?) ? my understanding was that only 3B engine has it ... If we are talking about the one controling trottle

 

[cruiser_guy]

Does B engine has diaphragm (pneumatic governor?) ? my understanding was that only 3B engine has it ... If we are talking about the one controling trottle

How about you post where you are located and what market your truck was sold in. LandCruisers are equipped differently for different markets and we are speaking mostly from the Canadian perspective with a little Aussie thrown in.

 

[domik007]

car was for New Zeland market...

 

[jus cruzin]

one of my mates did the same thing hoydo'd but he thought the injectors were stuffed......drove it for about 170km (very smokey)

conclusion:- bent conrod.......only bent slightly hense smokey. No rattles or unusual noises.

there is no way the injector pump would have any problems unless it or the injectors were stuffed before hand.

 

[domik007]

one of my mates did the same thing hoydo'd but he thought the injectors were stuffed......drove it for about 170km (very smokey)

conclusion:- bent conrod.......only bent slightly hense smokey. No rattles or unusual noises.

there is no way the injector pump would have any problems unless it or the injectors were stuffed before hand.

so the engine will stop runnig in short time if I got the same problem ?

 

[Otterav]

Hello,
As a side note, the reason diesels are sensitive to H2O in the fuel is steam. When the water goes through the injectors during operation the H2O rapidly expands into steam and destroys the injector nozzle/tip. I learned this from the maintenence/operations manual for my military truck.
interesting
e.