Pleading assistance on the beaten horse and over read desmog threads... (1 Viewer)

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Seeking assistance '87 FJ60.... I rebuilt a Aisin carb. I verified the linkages are correct per SOR's website pixs and my own stock carb sitting next to it plus had emailed few pixs to JimC. I also replaced the secondary diaphragm as well and replaced the rod with the correct per JimC verifying via PM. Also replaced the accelerator plunger with the OEM from Toyota and soaked prior to install. New cap, rotor, plugs and wires have been added as well.
As well as updated vacuum lines with new. My truck ran prior tho had some hesitation around 1800rpms hence the rebuild. My truck was also one of the many heavily molested desmoged victims out there. I have since added a VCV at diz side, as well as an HAC and have the AC idle and fuel decel included as well.
I am still w/o a VCV2 on drivers side as well as a T on PCV for line to diz VCV.
My problem in concern is: She won't hold an idle. And at a full choke will roar to 3k, sounds like a friggen jet plane. But peters out at 1/4 choke w/ rpms about 1k. I have set the idle mix per FSM in full then out three turns. I have played with the idle speed screw and fast idle (mistakenly thought it was the idle speed initially).
I am posting pictures of my lines, bear with me and please tell me if I am correct so far.... Will add in few minutes via my ph.
I live in CT, so not dealing with much elevation. Should HAC even be hooked up? And if I don't get a VCV2 for drivers side what then with the ports that would go to it? Cap?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Diz side....

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

BVSV1 (marked in black sharpie, under the one with white sharpie) connected to carb at port outer most edge from IM screw about 3pm.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

HAC and fuel decel and AC idle out of pix but inner port to diaphragm marked with an A on carb at about 11pm, and outer port going to T above the finned port that brake booster line goes to on edge of valve cover/intake.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Three ports on gas filter so far are capped which I believe is incorrect. Does one go to BVSV2?

 

[Toyoland66]

The bvsv is part of the evap system, there should a hose attached to both nipples, the way you have it now will cause a vacuum leak once the engine comes up to temp and the bvsv opens. Reference post 6 here: The Definitive 79-80 Desmog Guide

Not idling without the choke pulled points to a issue with the fuel cut solenoid, do you have the green wire mod done?

 

[Output Shaft]

Standby...

 

[Toyoland66]

The only thing the gas filter is used for is the distributor advance for HAC, this provides additional advance when in high altitude mode. This is disconnected in your photos (the open port on the distributor advance). You should cap that port if you aren't going to use it.

e.t.a. The gas filter is also the vacuum source for dist cap venting on the FJ60, this is different that the 79-80 configuration that I was referencing.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

The bvsv is part of the evap system, there should a hose attached to both nipples, the way you have it now will cause a vacuum leak once the engine comes up to temp and the bvsv opens. Reference post 6 here: The Definitive 79-80 Desmog Guide

Not idling without the choke pulled points to a issue with the fuel cut solenoid, do you have the green wire mod done?

I have not done the mod yet but will. Need to look it up. As I have seen the jokes "not the green wire" so must be the opposing black/yellow right?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

The only thing the gas filter is used for is the distributor advance for HAC, this provides additional advance when in high altitude mode. This is disconnected in your photos (the open port on the distributor advance). You should cap that port if you aren't going to use it.

I have yet to figure out which port to use. Read that the outer secondary can give 7* and inner can give 13* when connected. Also read that if one or the other are not used they do not necessarily need to be capped.... ? Granted I have yet to get a recurve done... I am in the works but thus far want to simply get truck up and running before going further.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Standby...

Thank you!

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Off to work, will check back in later via my phone. All comments and consideration highly appreciated guys. Female here struggling at not getting overwhelmed at the mass of threads I have read more times than I can count. I DO have the FJ60 desmog PDF as well but I learn and understand best by pictures.

 

[Output Shaft]

It appears that you don't have the Toyota 2F Emissions FSM. All the diagrams to plumb up the stuff are illustrated in that manual.

VSV 2 is for air injection (smog pump). You don't need one on a polluting cruiser.

BVSV 2 top is for EGR system. Not needed in a desmog.
BVSV 1 (bottom) is for Choke Opener. Good thing to have but not mission critical. Choke Opener allows you to pull the choke knob when the engine is warm to raise idle speed without actually choking the carb.
As you have it now, when you pull the choke on a warm engine, you're choking the carb and richening the A/F mixture (and increasing idle).

The Choke Opener vac line on the carb is plumbed wrong. See emissions FSM for correct routing.

How to plumb up the HAC is illustrated in the emissions FSM. Not needed if driving below 4000 ft.

The Fuel Cut Solenoid works two different ways:
1. When the ignition is turned off the valve closes.
2. When decelerating, the FCS is controlled by the vacuum switch and emissions computer... reducing fuel going into the carb to prevent afterburning during deceleration. Helps for engine braking down long hills and saves the CAT.
Thats not plumbed up correctly. Right now, the blue hose with black marker is going to upper BVSV on T-stat housing (nothing should go there if no EGR) and upper pipe on carb (Wrong).

The distributor VCV is missing a vacuum hose that should go on the empty blue pipe "S". That vac hose should then go to a vacuum source. Originally it was the tri-pipe gas filter thingy screwed into the intake manifold.
As you have it now, the distributor is not ventilating.

If there is no tee fitting coming off the PCV hose, then the blue vac hose connected to the Hot Air Intake valve on the air cleaner neck should just be removed... or left open to atmosphere.

Take a look at the following diagrams in the emissions FSM. They are excellent and clearly show how to hook stuff up.

1. Exhaust Gas Recirculation (for top BVSV reference)
2. Choke Opener
3. Deceleration Fuel Cut
4. High Altitude Compensation
5. Hot Air Intake

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

I do have the emissions fsm and the desmog PDF and have read vastly more threads than is probably necessary and now have confused myself.
Thank you for your thorough explanation and will read thru the fan again.
I appreciate the assistance tremendously.

 

[Toyoland66]

You do need 2 vsv's, to contradict what @Output Shaft said.

One of for the distributor cap venting, the other is for the evap system (charcoal canister and fuel bowl venting)

 

[Output Shaft]

Correct. I got VCV and VSV mixed up (again). For some reason I was thinking air injection VSV, not EVAP VCV. Oops.

If the carb base angled pipe is plugged, you don't need a VCV on the driver's side (EVAP).

 

[Output Shaft]

Since there are several issues going on, let's just fix one at a time, then move on to the next one.

Fix # 1
Remove the vacuum hose from the top BVSV and remove it from the top carb pipe.

Run a vacuum hose from that carb pipe to the vacuum switch either through the metal spaghetti as it was originally, or via a new piece of hose.

Done.

 

[Output Shaft]

Fix # 2.

Ventilate the Distributor:

The blue & black VCV clipped above the distributor needs to have a vacuum applied to the bottom pipe (S) in order to open the valve to allow the distributor to ventilate. Currently the pipe is naked.

Attach a long piece of vacuum hose to it and route it around the engine to a source of constant manifold vacuum. Not a carb pipe. The original place was the tri-pipe "gas filter" thingy that screwed into the top of the intake manifold. Since you no longer have that doo dad, find another source somewhere. You could make a new fitting that screws into the same spot the gas filter went, or tee off the vac hose that actuates the AC idle up.

Don't worry about the Choke Opener or HAC for now. Not that important.

Done.

 

[Output Shaft]

Fix # 3

Ideally, a tee fitting comes out of the PCV hose to apply vacuum to the Hot Idle Compensation valve screwed into the bottom of the air cleaner housing. You probably still have this valve installed and it probably works. The HIC valve controls the actuation of the HAI valve on the air cleaner neck and it also bleeds extra air into the intake manifold, leaning out the A/F mixture at hot idle to help the engine idle better when hot.

To improve cold weather running, (and mpg) especially when it's freezing or very humid, having a functioning HAI system is nice. Get a duct for the end of the air cleaner neck & route it to the front radiator support bulkhead and get an intake tube for the bottom of the HAI valve & wire the end of it next to the exhaust manifold so it can suck hot air.

The HIC valve will then control the temp going into the air cleaner housing at a optimum 86° avg temp when the outside air is cooler.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Fix # 3

Ideally, a tee fitting comes out of the PCV hose to apply vacuum to the Hot Idle Compensation valve screwed into the bottom of the air cleaner housing. You probably still have this valve installed and it probably works. The HIC valve controls the actuation of the HAI valve on the air cleaner neck and it also bleeds extra air into the intake manifold, leaning out the A/F mixture at hot idle to help the engine idle better when hot.

To improve cold weather running, (and mpg) especially when it's freezing or very humid, having a functioning HAI system is nice. Get a duct for the end of the air cleaner neck & route it to the front radiator support bulkhead and get an intake tube for the bottom of the HAI valve & wire the end of it next to the exhaust manifold so it can suck hot air.

The HIC valve will then control the temp going into the air cleaner housing at a optimum 86° avg temp when the outside air is cooler.

View attachment 1354885

I do not have the T above the PCV per my OP. Need to find one to fit. My PCV is plastic and was clogged with sediment but I have since cleaned and reinstalled. And I have a cold air duct ready to add but a PO at one time replaced my power steering pump with a Volvo one and a cheesy Volvo res so the hose routing is pretty screwy and makes it nearly impossible to fit the duct the way it needs to. Will see about getting it in there.
Regarding fix #3 ^^^

get an intake tube for the bottom of the HAI valve & wire the end of it next to the exhaust manifold so it can suck hot air.

Please explain further as I am having a tough time envisioning that... I do have the valve under my air cleaner as mentioned in OP as well... The bottom port that would go to the T is capped at this time.
Regarding fix #2 ^^^

Since you no longer have that doo dad, find another source somewhere

I DO still have the gas filter and at this time per my OP all are capped because I was uncertain what needed to go there. I can route S on VCV diz side to it.
Regarding fix #1 ^^^

Run a vacuum hose from that carb pipe to the vacuum switch

Please elaborate on vacuum switch... ?

And funny that you mixed up VCV with VSV because I also did buy a blue and white VTV (too many damn V something or others) because somewhere in all I read I was under the idea I needed one for the passenger side VCV near diz? (Its the same as the green and white one on the carb but the amount of air it allows through (or restricts) is different. Read on mud 200cc/mm for blue and 50cc/min for green).

Thoroughly appreciate the more clear answers to my questions with the pixs from the FSM of which I do have but my apologies; I was under the idea that since I am desmoging that much of that would not pertain to my truck. And I had someone helping but unfortunately being in different areas of the USA what he needed to do to his desmoged truck clearly won't work for me where I am in CT. Hence the added confusion. I'll add that I actually drew my own schematic for all the systems tho its fairly jumbled at this point and a tad embarrassing to post here.... The desmog PDF written by JimC and another mud member is great but I am a pictures person so kept going back to Roma's thread and the one "My Desmog Keeping HAC Lots of Pixs"and thus is why I ended up so boggled.