parking disc brake - brake caliper choice (1 Viewer)

[Dunkane]

hello
i can read lot of pages where you discuss of the parking brake kit.
i would like to make my own , myself for my h55F transfer case (5 speed), because before i was with H41 (4 speed) and i had a parking brake drum...i want no more put this drum because of the mud and water and oil (transfer leak)

The solution is like TSM or MAF parking disc kit
so i'm looking for the good mechanical caliper and disc

after somes research i found :

tom wood's brake for atlas

http://www.4xshaft.com/Brake_Rotor_kit.html


man-a-fre

http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/discparkbrakeconvkit.htm

caliper seems to be manufactured by airheart .
Airheart Brake Components - MB1 Caliper Disc Brake

or

Tolomatic, Inc. - Power Transmission - Mechanical Caliper Disc Brakes

You can have it here :
Airheart Mechanical Go-Kart Brake Caliper | Brakes, Clutches, + Hubs | Northern Tool + Equipment

TSM

http://www.tsmmfg.com/4066.htm

caliper is like the first one on the pdf below , made by knott brake
http://www.knottbrake.com/pdf/Mechanical Disc Brakes.pdf

or

http://www.hayesbrake.com/standard_products.html
http://www.hayesbrake.com/pdf/HB_Product_Guide.pdf

question is : how to choose the good one, who can calulate the necessary force (Nm) than the caliper have to give to be operative (fj40 with 33x12.5x15 and 10x41 diff ratio) ?

whe you take a look on ebay you can find somes caliper and disc
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=go...t+brake&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

is someone build himself a such parking brake ?

 

[tornadoalleycruiser]

I ran that style of MAF caliper as an ebrake on my 40.. It sucked.. smallish little puck inside that kinda worked. The other second larger caliper is what I'm going to use this time behind a split case. they can be sourced from places like SKy manuf or others that use them on minitrucks. The bracket was SIMPLE to make the rotor i used on a split case I think came from SKy. bolt patterns matched minitruck. Might google go-cart caliper to find other examples of calipers.
I ran bolts instead of studs and ran rotor behind flange and driveshaft in it's normal location.

 

[petescoffee]

The brake calipers are the same ones that are used on many small Rubber Tired Tractors. Bo to a Tractor Dealer or Tractor supply Store and look at what they have.

I have one on my 1982 Toyota Pick up truck and it is bolted to the back of the Transfer case. The key is to align it up so it does not rub. The other issue is the disc rotor itself. On the pick up truck the disc is threaded and acts as the nut for the drive shaft bolt. The problem I have had is I crossed threaded it once and now have to have a nut on the back as well as have had to replace my rear Transfer case seal. The seal may have been bad anyway, I am not sure. My other theory is that the disc may not be perfectly machined and as it spins out of round and puts unnatural forces on the rear output shaft. This would also cause vibrations in the drive line, hard to tell on this truck.

I still run it though as I have rear disc brakes.

Another supplier in the United States of the set up is High Angle Drive Line in Paradise, California.
High Angle Drivline-Call Jesse at 530-877-2875 - My Buildup
You can get a good look at the caliper he uses.

Another option is a Mico Line lock for temporary Emergency Braking.

 

[Vicm]

I have been thinking about this for sometime, for my HJ60,
I am going with different approach.
I want to use the calipers from 79-81 Toyota cilica for rear disc conversion.

I am thinking that will solve the e-brake issue.
The funny thing is , I can't get those calpiers locally, but I am going to keep trying other places till I get them.
I think what you have will be good to pass inspection , not effectively park the truck.
I only need the e-brake to pass inspection, so if I can't find the cilica calipers, I might go with those mechanical calipers.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

Vic, consider the rear disc brakes from a Holden Jackaroo (aka Isuzu Trooper.) On the US market the 1988 and newer Troopers came with rear disc brakes with parking brake cables.

I've been hoping to come across a junked Trooper to steal the rear axle out of with the idea of swapping these rear disc brakes onto a 40 Series Land Cruiser!

Good luck!

Alan

I have been thinking about this for sometime, for my HJ60,
I am going with different approach.
I want to use the calipers from 79-81 Toyota cilica for rear disc conversion.

I am thinking that will solve the e-brake issue.
The funny thing is , I can't get those calpiers locally, but I am going to keep trying other places till I get them.
I think what you have will be good to pass inspection , not effectively park the truck.
I only need the e-brake to pass inspection, so if I can't find the cilica calipers, I might go with those mechanical calipers.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

FWIW, I have been doing some calculations on this.

At a 30 degree slope (which is steep, but not unheard of offroad, so I want this ability), to hold a 5000 pound truck, assuming 4.11 diffs and 33 inch tires you need to generate 1932 ft/lbs of holding torque with the brake (2146 lbs with 3.70 diffs).

The question then comes down to the size of the disc, the clamping force of the caliper, and the brake pad. Apparently most brake pads only have a coefficient of friction of roughly .31 or so, which means you need a bigger caliper than most of these kits provide.

The Hayes model they almost all seem to use is the 1110M, which generates 1600 lbs of clamping force if provided with 200 lbs of pull. That is, frankly, not going to cut it IMHO.

I'd like to get my hands on the Hayes M50, to see what it could do. I'm pretty sure that it would work just fine for a Land Cruiser sized vehicle. Anyone know a place where someone could buy one to play around with?

Dan

 

[bsmith123]

parking brake

I started a similar thread---sick of parking brake drama

I found a fj60 on ebay uk and am wondering when people say use the 60 disc system if this involves moving the whole rear end over or just the brake parts?


the ad says 3.9 gasoline engine I am assuming 3f and a manual 5 speed---would this be the h55?

 

[Fast Eddy]

you need to generate 1932 ft/lbs of holding torque with the brake (2146 lbs with 3.70 diffs).

The Hayes model they almost all seem to use is the 1110M, which generates 1600 lbs of clamping force if provided with 200 lbs of pull. That is, frankly, not going to cut it IMHO.

Use two calipers.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Use two calipers.

Whoah, does two calipers work? I really like that idea, but if I had calipers, wouldn't they just get half of the clamping force each, or is the added pad area sufficient to hold the truck better?

Two calipers would be a real elegant answer, because the calipers can pull from either side, so the linkage could be real simple to fabricate.... Time to think some more...

Dan

 

[Fast Eddy]

Whoah, does two calipers work? I really like that idea, but if I had calipers, wouldn't they just get half of the clamping force each, or is the added pad area sufficient to hold the truck better?

You're the one with all the figuring. My math degree is only a bachelors.

I'm sure it's not as simple as double the clamping or half the clamping force each. There's static and dynamic coefficients of friction you weren't taking into account in the previous calculations.

The easiest way to get more force is to use a bigger rotor.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

You're the one with all the figuring. My math degree is only a bachelors.

I'm sure it's not as simple as double the clamping or half the clamping force each. There's static and dynamic coefficients of friction you weren't taking into account in the previous calculations.

The easiest way to get more force is to use a bigger rotor.

Actually, I was using a dynamic CoF of 0.31 for the calculations above, which appears to be a pretty inefficient pad, and my main goal is for a parking brake, but having a useable emergency brake is obviously a really important thing.

I haven't used my degree since I graduated, so I forsee a lot of doodles tomorrow and head scratching while at work.

Absolutely the most efficient way to get better torque out of the brake is to put a bigger rotor on, but I'm thinking 8" is probably about the limit of what is sensible or would fit under a cruiser without being too susceptible to damage.

Look out! The gears are turning up there. This probably won't end well.

Dan

 

[cmiller114]

I also have a H55 with rear disks and Eldorado calipers w/ebrakes.....not good. My thought is, why not use the rear disks I already have and install two cable actuated calipers like a Hayes M600.

HB Performance: Standard Products: Heavy Duty Mechanical Calipers

The cables are already right there. All I need is the calipers and to fab up some brackets or possibly a bracket that would hold both a hydraulic and a cable caliper. Has anyone tried this?

 

[Isaacjohnstar]

Dan, maybe a stupid suggestion but what if you could somehow put two small discs and calipers in there? You would need to fab up a mount and shorten your driveshaft.

 

[Fast Eddy]

I also have a H55 with rear disks and Eldorado calipers w/ebrakes.....not good. My thought is, why not use the rear disks I already have and install two cable actuated calipers like a Hayes M600.

HB Performance: Standard Products: Heavy Duty Mechanical Calipers

The cables are already right there. All I need is the calipers and to fab up some brackets or possibly a bracket that would hold both a hydraulic and a cable caliper. Has anyone tried this?

Two calipers on the wheel discs have only half (or less) the holding power of one disc at the t-case output due to the 4:1 differential gearing.

 

[chicago]

Anyone heard of using a mech. line lock?
There was a guy on pirate who had used a "swage lock" that really likes it.
No cables, no calipers, you simply mash the brake and lock the fluid in and turn a handle. It essentially a ball valve.
The down side is you have to run the brake line in the cab to the dash (or where ever).
Im thinking on going this route.

 

[Volcano cruiser]

Dan,
I have not seen much discussion on here of this solution. I was originally going with the TSM/MAF style disk. However much to my suprise almost everyone talks about how bad they suck as just a parking brake. ( Discussion of them as E brakes are not even made). I contacted MAF and they said that they are coming out with something stronger for the split case. They are sending me info but what I have seen so far looks just like the TSM product. So now I'm looking again.

I ran accross a post in the thread that Bsmith123 started see pic below. It is a Wilwood remote MC without resevoir. It uses your existing parking brake cable to actuate and all of the hydraulics are mounted outside of the cabin, wherever convenient. No additional disks or calipers to mount, it simply locks your four disks up for parking until disengaged. The Wilwood Remote MC is available from Summit for under $50.00: Wilwood Disc Brakes 260-6089 - Wilwood Aluminum Master Cylinders - Overview - SummitRacing.com

The problem is the bracket . Originally made by http://www.ceoffroad.com/ for CJs, they don't seem to be in business anymore, link no workie. Two questions:
1) How would this solution match up to your previous disk related calculations?
2) Assuming that this matches up well, got any ideas what we could do about a bracket?

This soultion won't work where folks have legal restrictions about using hydraulic braking systems for parking brakes but where no such restriction exists...what say you?
John

 

[Mace]

Line loks are not recognised as a long term pbrake solution. They do work, but if you have any sort of leaks in your braking system (even a very slight one) they will bleed off over time.

Some TLCA events do not recognise them as true parking brakes.

I personaly like them a lot tho. (pricy as good ones are)

 

[Volcano cruiser]

Leaving the TLCA event issue aside for a moment is the answer for the split case guys upgrading the caliper that comes with the TSM kit to something that is a bit stronger? Dan- What say you via the calculations

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Leaving the TLCA event issue aside for a moment is the answer for the split case guys upgrading the caliper that comes with the TSM kit to something that is a bit stronger? Dan- What say you via the calculations

My calculations say I need to get my hands on an M50 to test it out....

I think that dual calipers on the single T-case brake just might work, but it really comes down to their internal camming ability than anything else. If it's hard enough to exert enough force with one caliper, then two calipers might just require twice the force without any mechanical benefit.

Also, the mechanism for a dual caliper system is a bit more complicated. Yeah, I need to get my hands on an M50...


Dan

 

[Volcano cruiser]

My calculations say I need to get my hands on an M50 to test it out....

I think that dual calipers on the single T-case brake just might work, but it really comes down to their internal camming ability than anything else. If it's hard enough to exert enough force with one caliper, then two calipers might just require twice the force without any mechanical benefit.

Also, the mechanism for a dual caliper system is a bit more complicated. Yeah, I need to get my hands on an M50...


Dan

Ok, how about this, does anyone see anything wrong with the following belt and suspenders approach. Use the remote cylinder mounted as above where the brake cable pushes/pulls the lever that actuates the piston. Either have the same cable continue on through the lever and with the same action, i.e. same pull of the cable that actuates the lock, also actuate the mechanical caliper on say the TSM split case disk setup. My mechanic suggested another option would be to have a separate cable come off the back side of the same lever on the bracket, i.e. instead of the same cable actuating both mechanisms, directly, have the parking brake lever pull the piston and the caliper mechanically through the lever.

Why do both? If you have to register the vehicle and pass inspection in an area that doesn´t permit hydraulic brakes as your only parking brake and in order to pass inspection the brakes have to hold the vehicle. Neither of the current disk based systems has a good rep for holding the rig, i.e. passing inspection. A dual system would have the benefit of holding the vehicle and if it failed the disk would be there as a back up. I guess the second aspect is that it will take a while to work out a stronger single caliper or dual caliper setup so I guess you could say that the linelock is cheap backup untill the dust settles on the caliper debate. What do you guys think.