1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Painting bumper-DIY using POR-15

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by 410225, Mar 12, 2004.

  1. 410225

    410225

    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    My bumpers are showing little rust on the center and rear, and I thought of repainting the whole thing myself. I was reading through the POR-15 site and found few alternatives for the painting.
    This might be a basic questions for alot of you guys but what is the most important part on prep'ing painting bumpers and what is the good paint to use? I know the end caps are plastic and center is metal, wanted to make sure I use something that will adhere to both materials.
    Thanks for your help.

    BTW, my local dealer is saying the 97 LC bumpers are factory painted and there is no touch up paint available. What a BS.
     
  2. turbocruiser

    turbocruiser SILVER Star

    Messages:
    3,562
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2003
    I have used POR-15's full range of products extensively and I think that it is super stuff. However, the POR-15 paint itself is not intended for exposure to the effects of UV light; it will turn chalky white after while, it will still protect from rust but it will not look so lovely. POR-15 makes a product for application over the paint which will act to protect the paint from the effects of the UV light and will also act as a binder between the isocyanoacrylate (sp) of the POR and the enamel, urethane or the polyurethane of the paint that will be required to match the original look. The prep part is important but I have found that there are products which do the same thing as the Metal Clean and Metal Ready that you can get in the hardware store. Here in Colorado the product at the hardware store is Jasco Metal Etch and Jasco Metal Prep. The Metal Prep cleans the metal with organic agents and the Metal Etch etches the metal with acid and then leaves a layer of zinc phospate which really helps paint adhere to metal. This stuff is super cheap compared to the POR equivalents. Otherwise, follow the instructions on the POR and you will never have rust in that same spot. HTH Take Care.
     
  3. landtoy80

    landtoy80

    Messages:
    5,800
    Likes Received:
    311
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Location:
    North Front Range, CO
    I have used POR15 and prep work is why it works.
    You still need to get all the rust off as the metal will still rust under the POR15 but the POR15 is like fiberglass and will hide the rust under it. The rust will come through the other side of the metal over time.
    I used it with fiberglass cloth and it makes a hard flexable surface that is great for covering rust holes.

    If you use good prep work, good primer and good paint you will get a better looking bumper than with POR15.
    If looks doesn't mater use POR15.
     
  4. turbocruiser

    turbocruiser SILVER Star

    Messages:
    3,562
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2003
    [quote author=landtoy80 link=board=2;threadid=12997;start=msg120079#msg120079 date=1079114354]
    I have used POR15 and prep work is why it works.
    You still need to get all the rust off as the metal will still rust under the POR15 but the POR15 is like fiberglass and will hide the rust under it. [/quote]

    Actually this is inaccurate; POR stands for "Paint Over Rust" and as long as all the loose flaky scaly rust is gone, you can paint over the rust and it WILL NOT rust again. In fact, the absolute perfect surface for POR is a slightly rusted and slightly pitted piece of metal that has been cleaned and prepped. When I'm welding up things like trailers and boat dollys and boat trailers that I make, I actually let the metal sit exposed to elements for two months or so until there is a slight "flash" rust, I agree that the prep is where its at but with POR, it is not a paint with pores, it is a sealant that seals the metal surface from air and hence from humidity. So, once it is sealed, it is good to go! HTH
     
  5. landtoy80

    landtoy80

    Messages:
    5,800
    Likes Received:
    311
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Location:
    North Front Range, CO
    Yes you need to remove ALL the flakey scaly rust, but if you don't get all the bubbles of rust out of the metal it will still rust.
    When I did some rust removing on the FJ60, I ground all the surface rust off the fender. I then did some more grinding and deep into the metal there was more rust that has worked its was down.
    I went over some other spots that I had ground down and they also had rust bubbles under good clean metal.
    The rust was from stone or door dings. They looked like small rust spots but the more I ground, the more rust I found under the small ding.
    I ended up with dent looking spots from all the metal I removed.
    There were some spots that worked all or almost all the way through the metal.

    POR15 cant stop the tiny bubbles that are deep in the metal. It might slow down the rate that the rust is growing but it will still be doing damage.

    If you are working on thick metal like bumpers, then any rust bubbles in the metal will do little damage but if it is thin metal the rust will just keep working till it comes out the other side.

    One problem with POR15 is that if you don't do a great job preping the metal, you will not know that the rust has come back and doing damage becouse the POR15 is more of a covering like fiberglass resin, than it is a paint.
    You will know this when you do a bad job of prep work and sheets of POR15 peal off. POR15 is like tarp material when it is removed. Hard tough and flexable.

    POR15 is like any other tool, it has its place. Like on bumpers, axle housing, frame but if you want a clean look like power coat or automotive paint don't use POR15.

    I don't mean to be hard on this product but it has its limitations. I will use it again.
     
  6. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

    Messages:
    21,646
    Likes Received:
    5,049
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Surrounded by Cruisers from all over the world
    [quote author=MNCruiser link=board=2;threadid=12997;start=msg119992#msg119992 date=1079108023]

    BTW, my local dealer is saying the 97 LC bumpers are factory painted and there is no touch up paint available. What a BS.
    [/quote]

    It is true. Toyota does not offer touchup paint for the bumpers.
     
  7. hpantier

    hpantier

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    I saw a bumper around town that someone had done with Rino Liner or Line X (used for pickup beds etd.) Looked pretty cool. Either of these would protect against rust, would be virtually bomb-proof, but neither would look "stock"

    Just another option FWIW.
     
  8. turbocruiser

    turbocruiser SILVER Star

    Messages:
    3,562
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2003
    Kurt, respectfully, I still disagree. First (from last to first on your post) POR can come out looking every bit as good as powdercoat or paint. When I apply it, I load it into a HVLP gravity feed spray gun and it is easy to spray and, in my opinion, even easier to spray than paint as it is 'self leveling' and tends not to show orange peel. Second, I have never, not ever, had any POR peel, crack, or chip. If any of these things take place, it means that prep was poorly done. Third, you mentioned that you had rust bubbles "under good clean metal" and this is not really possible; it is possible to have another rust spot on the reverse side of good clean metal but in that case, the rust is not getting treated by the POR, it is eating its way through unprotected metal and then finally making its way up to the POR where it will push it off and make it look like the POR was ineffective. For POR to work, you have to prep and paint all sides of steel. Fourth, you stated that POR cannot help the bubbles of rust in the metal and that is not accurate; for rust to occur, there must be oxidation (iron oxide is rust) there are all sorts of oxidation processes related to metal and even aluminum can oxidize in its own way, but for metal to rust, there must be both air and humidity. When the rust is covered with the POR properly there is no air and no humidity so if these areas continue to rust, then again, they are rusting from the reverse side. It is accurate to say that POR is a seal system; basically POR is super glue with color and with 15 other 'secret ingredients' - thats why the name POR-15 "Paint Over Rust with 15 additives" is so descriptive. This formula BTW is similar to but not the same as the 'Miracle Paint' that is often advertised in Hemmings. The story is that an ex employee of POR left the company and 'invented' the Miracle Paint. POR claims that this competitor's product is less effective because it is only the super glue, the isocyanoacrylate (sp?) and color, not those other '15 secret ingredients'. Anyway, sorry to ramble on here, it is just that this is the single best product or preparation available for rust and despite some of your (Kurt's) bad experiences with it, I can almost assure you that if the prep is proper, POR will, as it advertises, 'Permanently Stop Rust!' Trust me, if it didn't then all these old timers in the Packard clubs, Dusenberg clubs (sp?) and Mercedes clubs etc etc etc would not rely on it to protect their timeless classics. Lastly, I've learned to emphasize that I am only sharing my experiences and that I am not in any way arguing with anyone especially with Kurt so it is just philosophical or 'foolosophical' thoughts and personal successful experiences that I'm sharing with you fine folks here. HTH. Since I've forgotten for several posts, :beer: :beer: :beer: For All!
     
  9. landtoy80

    landtoy80

    Messages:
    5,800
    Likes Received:
    311
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Location:
    North Front Range, CO
    Whan I say clean metal I ment that it looked clean. There were tiny holes in the metal that unless you grind into it, you would think that the metal is rust free.

    I say this as to warn others about rusty metal. Unless you find all the tiny holes in body work, the rust return. It is best to remove the metal that looks like it is full of tiny bubbles.
    I was going to use POR15 to seal up the rust chips on the doors and fenders. It doesn't work for that applacation as POR15 doesn't sand well, so you can have a feather finish look. You can bondo over it if you follow the instructions.

    I don't know how POR15 can stop rust that is deep in thick metal. When I did my receiver hitch on the 80, it was rusted realy good. I would grind, sandblast and power sand the metal clean. Then I would see a pin hole, grind into it and there would be many pen tip sized bubbles, full of rust.
    When you wash, acid, rinse with water you better get all the pinholes dry from water,sand and junk or you will lock the water in. Thats where rust will grow.

    If you are going to restore a classic car, you would really have it bead blasted to remove all the lose rusted metal. At that point POR15 would not work well as it likes old rusty metal. I saw a frame that was POR15ed. It looked like crap. You could see all the texture of where the flakey rust was removed.
    For LC use it is great on under body parts. But unless you know you did a GREAT job or prep work (most people will not go for all the steps that it takes to do the prep work) you will be just hiding the rust.

    When I "had problems" with POR15, it was when I was using up the leftover stuff that you can't return to the can as it starts to cure as soon as it open to the air.
    I would just paint the leftover stuff on my "junky truck". It would peal off once it cured.
    I was not brave enough to air gun the stuff. It is very humid in WI , that stuff dries very fast and hard to clean up.

    Over all POR15 is great, unless you skimp or skip a step.

    The black on the pic is POR15.
    The red arrow shows where a big rust hole was.
    I POR15 the door and than had to remove it as it looked like crap. I wouldn't sand well. The blue is where the stone chips were.
     
  10. landtoy80

    landtoy80

    Messages:
    5,800
    Likes Received:
    311
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Location:
    North Front Range, CO
    Before and after.
    POR15 is great for patch work after you remove the rust and have big holes.
     
  11. turbocruiser

    turbocruiser SILVER Star

    Messages:
    3,562
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2003
    Wow, what an amazing improvement! That really looks really good.

    BTW, was there some subliminal message there with the first 'shot'. ??? Perhaps a dead issue this POR thing is now? ;) I'll lay low and act dead now! :D Seriously, not a flinch from now on! :rolleyes:

    Seriously though, your rig really looks great after all that work. :beer: For All! and RUST For None (hopefully)! :cheers: