OME 850/863 (non J) with L shocks? (1 Viewer)

[sdnative]

I am planning on getting the OME "2.5 inch" lift here pretty soon, consisting of the 850 and 863 non J springs. The kit includes the non L shocks (N73/N74), but can I run the Ls (N73L/N74L)?

I am stock (no bumpers, sliders, etc.), but do carry 2 spares in the back. Since I have little additional weight, I figure this lift will net me closer to 3.5 inches, putting me within L range.

I have researched this topic a bunch, but so far am not convinced this is the way to go. I have read Romer's thread, many many comments from Nay, etc. etc.....

Does anyone have this combo (850/863 with Ls on a stock rig)? Pictures?



I have a couple of observations/questions, and please correct me if I'm wrong here:

Will the theoretical 2.5" of lift put me right in the middle of travel with the standard shocks N73/N74 (5" up/5" down)?

And then I add another inch of lift (to 3.5" actual) and go with 2" longer shocks (the Ls). This should give me more down travel (4" up/ 6" down)?

I would have to lower my bumpstops ~2" to avoid over-compressing out the shocks?

Can I use the shocks to limit downtravel, or should I use limit straps?

Can I use small packers to put me closer to the middle of shock travel?

Will I be in danger of puking the spring on full articulation?

Are there any other shocks (e.g. bilsteins) that match better to the OME springs than the Ls? I dont mind using adapters if I have to.


I am using the rig for a combination of 75% pavement, 20% rough overland, and 5% crawling/ heavy articulation driving.

I am running 33" tires, and dont forsee myself going any larger.

If I add a bumper or more weight, I can swap to J springs to keep the lift right at ~3.5".

I appreciate any help with this. I'd like to order the springs/shocks this week.

Thanks!

 

[alkaline747trio]

Throw them on, add Slee's extended brake lines, flex things out and find out where your bumpstops are going to need to be, and consider the possibility of having to retain the bottom side of your springs.

Shocks arent going to change the look of a lifted rig so pictures wont do you any good. L shocks are longer, IE more droop/travel. Do you need it? Will it help you? Are you willing to do the work that it MIGHT take to make them fit properly? You're going to lose up travel, bumpstop extensions are a definite.

You say you don't want bigger than 33's, so that means adding bumpstop is a negative towards optimizing your suspension. Custom mounts are the only way to alleviate this issue; then again, custom bumpstops are going to be needed since you can only source 2" puck from slee, which are too much for L shocks, but about right for 35-37" tires.

L shocks, or longer than standard shocks, along with greater than OME heavy suspension is still unclaimed territory. Many options exist, and many 'standards' are compromises. J springs? Caster plates, custom arms, CV shafts, vibes...all come into play, or not?

 

[Bear80]

NO bump stop lowering is needed with L shocks. I measured the front and rear on mine. The front could acutally have a 19" long compressed shock, which is 2" more than the Ls. The rear is a bit closer though. The nearly 17" long compressed L shock IS the longest possible shock. You will need longer brake lines though if you use the L shocks.

The shocks are made to be the limit for extension. The only reason you may want to use limiting straps are to keep the springs from comming unseated with the added travel. This will happen but can also be solved with simple tabs added to the axle to keep the spring in place.

Your attempt to perfectly balance the wheel travel is trivial with your setup. Keep in mind the L shocks are used on up to six inches of lift, like what I have. I may be biased for more compression, but I still do better than guys with lower lifts/tires.

 

[alkaline747trio]

NO bump stop lowering is needed with L shocks. I measured the front and rear on mine. The front could acutally have a 19" long compressed shock, which is 2" more than the Ls. The rear is a bit closer though. The nearly 17" long compressed L shock IS the longest possible shock. You will need longer brake lines though if you use the L shocks.

The shocks are made to be the limit for extension. The only reason you may want to use limiting straps are to keep the springs from comming unseated with the added travel. This will happen but can also be solved with simple tabs added to the axle to keep the spring in place.

Your attempt to perfectly balance the wheel travel is trivial with your setup. Keep in mind the L shocks are used on up to six inches of lift, like what I have. I may be biased for more compression, but I still do better than guys with lower lifts/tires.

Might want to take that first one out, even Christo thinks that L shocks aren't ideal for his 6" lift, they are just the best he's found for his likes yet. They yeild nowhere near enough droop, and their travel range isn't spaced where it should be in a perfect setup on 6" of lift, but they bolt right in, are durable, and valved pretty close to what most 80s need.

Better is all in perspective, too many variables in everything to say that your rig is 'better' because of the 6" lift...I'll leave it at that.

Also, are you factoring in bumpstop compression? What about a jump or hard landing? Shocks still gonna be protected?

 

[landtank]

I personally would use the matched shocks to those springs. Why get into limiting straps and such?

KISS all the way.

 

[Bear80]

Might want to take that first one out, even Christo thinks that L shocks aren't ideal for his 6" lift, they are just the best he's found for his likes yet.

Also, are you factoring in bumpstop compression? What about a jump or hard landing? Shocks still gonna be protected?

I highly respect Mr. Slee but it's all hearsay until you try it out for youself. You run the L shocks and 6" of lift, what are YOUR opinions?

I have found that the front of MINE could use a 1" longer shock, otherwise I would unseat my springs. This is the limits for me and I'm not going to wast hours of time fighting for a mear inch. As for the rear I could use a 2" longer shock before the spring unseats. Addressing the front and rear on mine would yeild slightly better results but would it make an obsticle easier?.....I highly highly doubt it.

There is plently of bump stops for the L shocks, hard landing or not. PERIOD. I'm not going into the hypotheticals BS of old stops overcompressing etc.

The only issue to address with L shocks on 850/863 combo is the springs unseating. A search will yeild some solutions members have come up with.

 

[sdnative]

I personally would use the matched shocks to those springs. Why get into limiting straps and such?

KISS all the way.

Rick, I agree with KISS but...

While the N73/N74 are matched to the 850/863 springs when used with the advertised load (i.e. bumpers, etc will give 2.5" lift). Since I am not loaded, these springs will net me, by my best estimation, ~3.5". Hence the kit is not matched to the current load of the vehicle. That's my problem.

 

[sdnative]

You will need longer brake lines though if you use the L shocks.

Your attempt to perfectly balance the wheel travel is trivial with your setup.

I am going to use extended brake lines, and swaybar drop brackets.

By trivial, do you mean easy or not necessary?


My fear here is the std. shocks will be too short (not enough droop), and the Ls might be a little too long (not enough compression and risk of over-compressing the shock). Im kinda in no-mans land.

Is my thinking correct?

 

[landtank]

Rick, I agree with KISS but...

While the N73/N74 are matched to the 850/863 springs when used with the advertised load (i.e. bumpers, etc will give 2.5" lift). Since I am not loaded, these springs will net me, by my best estimation, ~3.5". Hence the kit is not matched to the current load of the vehicle. That's my problem.

I don't understand how the spring's rate figures into the length of the shock? I agree that it effects the truck's ride height but the spring will still only extend so far and as I see it having a shock longer than needed is a waste and requires further work to guard against unseating.

Just to throw a monkey wrench into this. The amount of caster you correct for will also influence how well the spring is retained by the shock. The shock mount at the axle is behind the spring perch. So as the axle is rotated to compensate for caster the distance available for spring extension is shortened. I realized this on my own truck. I had installed Slee's 4" springs and was taken back by how easily they slipped into place with the shocks installed. I even posted on here about it. I then installed my caster plates and realized the shortening effect of doing so and everything fit perfect.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I ran 850/863 and L's on my 1993 for 4-years until I sold it. It was a dedicated wheeler and the setup worked superbly. I did not retain the spring and I never lost one and my trails had wheels in the air 24/7.

I lowered my rear bump-stops by 2" for two reasons:

1. Slee said to do so in order to protect the shock
2. Cut down on rubbing

I did extend the brake lines and lower the sways. Great setup!

Opinions very from mild to wild on 80 suspensions. I won't debate that. I will just say that the combo you are asking about running worked killer-good on my '93. After I ran the setup for about a year I added 15mm trim packs front and 20mm trim packs rear to further lift the truck. This keeps the spring in even tighter. I miss that truck and maybe some day I'll rip the crap out of my '97 and go to this old setup. Lower profile, more stability, no dumb front arms to grab rocks. ENJOY!

 

[sdnative]

I don't understand how the spring's rate figures into the length of the shock? I agree that it effects the truck's ride height but the spring will still only extend so far and as I see it having a shock longer than needed is a waste and requires further work to guard against unseating.

I guess I should rephrase my goal. With the spring in and the truck sitting level, I want whatever shock I use to be at about 50% of its travel. That way, I'll have half of the shocks travel up and half down (or maybe I want more of one than the other? - I dont know). I dont care if it's the std or L shock or something else.

Since I am guessing the N73/N74 were designed to be at about 50% travel at the advertised 2.5" lift, an increase to 3.5" would rob me of an inch of droop. The L shocks, being 2" longer, but the same amount of travel, would give back two inches of droop, but I would lose an inch of compression - so I would have 4" up/ 6" down. Is my geometry correct? I'm trying to keep this all straight in my head.

And I agree, if the shock is too long, the spring can come unseated. But I dont think thats an issue here, maybe it is.


Since I didn't ask and perhaps should have, is slightly more down travel than up good for the driving style mention in my first post?

Thanks for all the good info so far, I appreciate it.

 

[sdnative]

Shocks arent going to change the look of a lifted rig so pictures wont do you any good.

I was looking for pictures of the L shock extension with the truck sitting level, full stuff and full droop. Figured these would be hard to find, but thought I'd ask

 

[landtank]

Man you are way over thinking this in my opinion. What does it matter where in the range the shock is traveling? If it's not restricting the spring on compression or extension then how does it matter?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I was looking for pictures of the L shock extension with the truck sitting level, full stuff and full droop. Figured these would be hard to find, but thought I'd ask

I looked for a pic of my '93 with the truck sitting level. Couldn't find one. I have one of my 100 sitting level. Not sure what you're looking to see. The 100 is 863 and L-shock.....same setup you are asking about. Rear ends are the same demension-wise....same control arms lengths, etc:

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

STOCK 80 with 850/863/L:

 

[FJBen]

Imagine that, an "L" shock question and a pic of a 100 series shows up?

You'll be fine with that setup.
.......................Ext......Comp
N74E* | Firm | 24.4" | 14.6"
N74L* | Firm | 26.4" | 15.6"

Thats 1" difference, worse case go 1" more on a bumpstop than you would with a standard OME medium lift if you are afraid that it's going to smash. The front won't at all.

I'm guessing that if you are running a Heavy front and heavy rear, you are going to have a pretty good stinkbug. here's a pic of mine before I went to 4" springs.

L shocks
OME"J" front
OME heavy rear 863 the rear is still taller than the front

 

[sdnative]

Thanks guys for all the help!

I'm pretty convinced the Ls will work. I'll go ahead and order these and extend my bumpstops an inch or so.

Shotts, that 80 looks nice. Was that your 93 I inquired about last year when you were selling it? Like your 100 license plate too.

Ben, I realize I'll get some stickbug, although the side shot of Shotts doesn't look too bad.

Where's the best place to get the extended BS? I'll get the bracketry from Slee.

I'll report back when I get it all installed.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Thanks guys for all the help!

I'm pretty convinced the Ls will work. I'll go ahead and order these and extend my bumpstops an inch or so.

Shotts, that 80 looks nice. Was that your 93 I inquired about last year when you were selling it? Like your 100 license plate too.

Ben, I realize I'll get some stickbug, although the side shot of Shotts doesn't look too bad.

Where's the best place to get the extended BS? I'll get the bracketry from Slee.

I'll report back when I get it all installed.

Ya, that was my old '93. If it had adjustable leather seats I'd a never let it go. I wasn't comfortable witht he cloth seat. Too low to the floor.

 

[miked]

Man you are way over thinking this in my opinion. What does it matter where in the range the shock is traveling? If it's not restricting the spring on compression or extension then how does it matter?

He's an engineer.. he admitted it.

 

[alkaline747trio]

I highly respect Mr. Slee but it's all hearsay until you try it out for youself. You run the L shocks and 6" of lift, what are YOUR opinions?

I have found that the front of MINE could use a 1" longer shock, otherwise I would unseat my springs. This is the limits for me and I'm not going to wast hours of time fighting for a mear inch. As for the rear I could use a 2" longer shock before the spring unseats. Addressing the front and rear on mine would yeild slightly better results but would it make an obsticle easier?.....I highly highly doubt it.

There is plently of bump stops for the L shocks, hard landing or not. PERIOD. I'm not going into the hypotheticals BS of old stops overcompressing etc.

The only issue to address with L shocks on 850/863 combo is the springs unseating. A search will yeild some solutions members have come up with.

I don't, I have 14" pro-comps in the front with my 6" coils, Ls in the rear with my J springs....I'd vote that less than half of the travel being droop isn't a good thing. Bumpstops compress, reguardless of age...a 1/2" of compression appears to be normal, and seems like an understatement especially if the rig gets off the ground, ever.

Seems like it works for you, good to hear....I'm assuming you have no bumpstop spacers, have you gotten any air yet? Hard bumps, dips, potholes, etc? Let me know if/when you do...I'd be willing to wager that your shocks will take a good hit, if it happens it wont take long for you to notice it. Maybe it will never happen. Hell, nobody thought 38.5s would fit the front of an 80 with just 2" bumpstop ext and Slee arms 4" and 6" springs.