1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

off to slay the birfield dragon

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by landtank, Oct 3, 2003.

  1. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

    Messages:
    18,892
    Likes Received:
    1,020
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Groveland MA
    Make copies of those papers and use them for the shop copy. Nothing worse than greasing up the only copy you have to a point that it can't be read :'(

    Good-luck :cheers:
     
  2. Riley

    Riley

    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Langley, BC
    Actually I've got lazer printouts of all three birfield tech sheets from this site and the FSM from Dan. We will probably be in the clear as far as written documentation goes, it's the other bits like experience we will be missing.
    :doh:

    If you're around on Sunday night and you're east of Pacific time, check the web, we might need some advice. Personally I'm suffering from the mudder syndrome and have nightmares that my axles have wear from the little seal-springs and we forget to grease the spindles. But by god I'm excited to be off to slay the dragon.

    :beer:
     
  3. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

    Messages:
    18,892
    Likes Received:
    1,020
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Groveland MA
    Be sure to temper that enthusiasm with some alcohol, helps steady the hands :cheers:
     
  4. Riley

    Riley

    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Langley, BC
    [quote author=landtank link=board=2;threadid=5923;start=msg47327#msg47327 date=1065239037]
    Be sure to temper that enthusiasm with some alcohol, helps steady the hands :cheers:
    [/quote]

    That reminds me, with all the running around buying tools and cool grease, I forgot to buy beer.

    Too bad in Canada we can't get Keystone, it would seem appropriate (but not necessarily any good).
    :beer:
     
  5. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

    Messages:
    21,545
    Likes Received:
    4,643
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Surrounded by Cruisers from all over the world
    HEY, :mad:

    You don't hear me saying Moosehead tastes like the other end do ya? :flipoff2:

    The best thing about Keystone is when you roll out from under the rig and knock yours over with the creeper, it's no big loss...... :rolleyes:

    (That is if it wasn't the last one in the fridge :eek: )
     
  6. semlin

    semlin discouraged user

    Messages:
    5,221
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    622
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    north of 49
    We don't actually drink moosehead here, Dan, it's a marketing ploy for all you foreigners. I would give you a list of all the good Canadian beers but it would just make you melancholy...

    Riley, I'll bring the suds -- you have severely depleted your #6 fund already..
     
  7. PHAEDRUS

    PHAEDRUS

    Messages:
    2,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2003
    Semlin and Riley,
    If you guys get too far stuck Give me a call, Riley should still have my number. I went through this a few months ago and was not really that bad. I should be at home most of the day on sunday.
    Dave
     
  8. Beowulf

    Beowulf

    Messages:
    12,530
    Likes Received:
    47
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Somewhere in the foothills...
    Simon & Riley,

    The torque wrench is your friend, use it on reassembly.

    -B-
     
  9. Riley

    Riley

    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Langley, BC
    Couple of questions I ran into today just getting the hubs/rotors off of one side.

    1) For the cone washers - when using the brass drift, do i hit the stud straight on (with the nut on to protect) or do I bang on the flange? or ???? In the one side that is off I used both the drift and chisel at different times and finally got them off. Bit of a hassle

    2) Since the wheel bearings look ok (so fr just looked at the out bearing on one side), do I need to pound out the race just clean out the old grease? Seems like a lot of work. Can I clean out the old grease with the races installed?

    Riley
     
  10. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

    Messages:
    21,545
    Likes Received:
    4,643
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Surrounded by Cruisers from all over the world
    DO NOT remove the races unless replacing them. As far as the cones go, I rap the edge of the flange smartly with a 16 oz machinist's hammer (nut left on a couple threads to retain the cone).

    D-
     
  11. Beowulf

    Beowulf

    Messages:
    12,530
    Likes Received:
    47
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Somewhere in the foothills...
    Riley,
    Use the brass drift, not the chisle. A brass or copper hammer if you have one. Like C-Dan said, leave the nuts on the ends of the studs to keep the cone washers from flying everywhere. After one comes loose, then remove the nut and the washer.

    Ditto C-Dan on the races. Just clean everything up, final cleaning with brake cleaner if you want to, then make sure the bearing is dry and use fresh synthetic wheel bearing grease. Be generous with the wheel bearing grease. The pics will help you there as it's hard to describe what is a proper amount of grease.

    Without sounding like a broken record....
    Replacing the wheel bearings isn't that tough so, IMHO, you can reuse them if they look OK to you. (No chips, not bent, no obvious worn rollers or scarring.) However, I don't recommend reusing the knuckle bearings no matter how good they look; assuming they have 60k miles or more. Once you're that deep in the knuckle you should replace these bearings with new. Just be careful to get the race in the right way. :D (Can't remember who, but someone got one in upside down; so watch what you're doing.)

    -B-
     
  12. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

    Messages:
    18,892
    Likes Received:
    1,020
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Groveland MA
    I personally avoid using any chemical solvents. The reason is that it can leave a film behind on the parts that resists the taking to lubricants. If you do use something like brake clean take a rag soaked in oil and rub them down well to remove that film before reassembly. There was someone a while ago that had some popping from his Birfs right after the repack which from my experience was this film issue. It did work itself out.

    FWIW, I use a light oil or kerosine for cleaning. Even with the kerosine I wipe down the parts afterwards.
     
  13. Riley

    Riley

    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Langley, BC
    Thanks guys, knuckle bearings are being replaced. I'll try the brass drift or my new brass hammer.

    Now back at it.

    Stay tuned......
     
  14. Riley

    Riley

    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Langley, BC
    Ok, next issue. the inner wheel bearing on one side has some wierd dent marks on it. Not from me pulling the seal as it's on the other side.

    I found bearings on Sunday from my local parts store but they are Sierra bearings. Never heard of them. Made in USA they claim.

    Any comments on Sierra bearings?
     
  15. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

    Messages:
    8,848
    Likes Received:
    238
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Where on the bearing?? Do you mean the race? If it's on the race edges (not the surface the wheel bearings run on), then it's likely from when they were pounded in and normal. This assumes there are no marks on the surface the bearings run on.

    As for bearings and races (never replace only bearings), I'd recommend the Toyota parts. As a general coment, if you're buying parts as you find you need them, this will add a lot of frustration and time to the job. You should consider buying ALL the parts and returning the ones you don't need.

    IdahoDoug
     
  16. Riley

    Riley

    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Langley, BC
    It was the bearing not the race. Not sure how this got damaged. Anyway the replacement bearings were SKF.

    They're in now with new races.

    almost done.....

    dinner time.
     
  17. Riley

    Riley

    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Fort Langley, BC
    Ok, she's back together and went for a road test, everything seems fine so far. But I've got some questions.

    1) For future reference: what's the best way to drive in the inner wheel bearing races? Simon got through it using old race and drift but it's tough. I guess one should use a race installer tool of some sort if there is such an animal?

    2) Not knowing at the time but on the DS axle seal I didn't drive it in all the way. For that side I used a 1.5" abs pipe but the seal didn't sit totally flush (sitting up perhaps 1/16"). I thought it was home but when I did the PS side I used a 2x2" - 6" chuck of wood and it went home flush. Question is - can I sleep at night with the driver side seal sitting out 1/16"?

    ::)

    3) I thought I'd check the diff breather while the truck was on the jack stands. I could blow through but it wasn't easy. Is that normal or should I replace/clean the check valve or whatever the little black box is?

    4) Should I retorque the nuts for the cone washers? They don't get torqued that tight and I was thinking that as the cones go home, the nuts might get loose? OR am I nuts.

    5) Not sure if it's my imagination but the brakes might be feeling soft. Pumping makes no difference. Lots of brake but it comes with more pedal travel than our vechicles. This mjight be normal for my truck and I'm just still not used to this rig yet. Any chance my removing the caliper could cause this? I can't see how.

    Feels good to get this job done. Many thanks to Simon for helping out. I'm sure it's going to go easier when we do his in a few weeks.

    Riley
     
  18. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

    Messages:
    8,848
    Likes Received:
    238
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    #1 - That's how I prefer to do it, actually.
    #2 - I'll be interested in other's opinions, but I've found other's work having left wheel bearing seals and the like not fully home with no problems. Ironically, yours may seal tighter since it's wearing in a different spot on the axle than the worn spot from the prior seal. If you think you got it at least halfway on and it took some force, I can't see enough force to move it laterally possibly happening (seal lip would give LONG before that).

    #3 - Do the breather extension mod and get rid of those pesky valves. Nothing but trouble, and a plugged valve is the only way I can think of pressure on the axle seal to encourage it to come out.

    #4 - Factory torque is fine. They're not prone to loosening.

    #5 - I'm assuming you only unbolted the caliper, without opening up the brake line. If so, no it would not affect braking feel. I'm also assuming you fully torqued the caliper back on to 90lb ft. Personally, I'd change the brake fluid since it's new to you. No telling how old it is and old brake fluid causes very expensive damage...

    Good job on the birfs. I take it you did not flip them to the opposite side since you did them sequentially?

    IdahoDoug
     
  19. Beowulf

    Beowulf

    Messages:
    12,530
    Likes Received:
    47
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Somewhere in the foothills...
    Riley & Simon,

    >> Ok, she's back together ... <<

    Congrats!

    >> 1) For future reference: what's the best way to drive in the inner wheel bearing races?

    Use the old race and the brass drift. Don't know if this is the "best" way, but it works.

    >> 2) Question is - can I sleep at night with the driver side seal sitting out 1/16"?

    Hmmm. Torquing the hub nut and setting the preload may have seated that seal for you. If not, my guess is that the DS wheel will lose the proper setting and your wheel will become too loose over time. Check it again next weekend; should only take an hour or less.
    See amended post below.

    >> 3) ... or should I replace/clean the check valve or whatever the little black box is?

    For all 80s, wheeled or mall cruiser, it is a good idea to extend the diff breathers and do the breather flap mod. I don't think you can clean the black plastic box.

    >> 4) Should I retorque the nuts for the cone washers?

    It won't hurt to check but for sure you should check the torque on the wheels, on the brake calipers, and on the lower knuckle bolts (based on a recent member's problem.)

    >> 5) ... Any chance my removing the caliper could cause this?

    Did you have to press in the brake pads to get the caliper off or back on? If so, did you check the master cylinder resevoir and keep it at the proper level?


    -B-
     
  20. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

    Messages:
    8,848
    Likes Received:
    238
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    B,

    He's worried about the DS inner axle seal, not the wheel bearing seal. I'm curious about your take on this as well.....?

    IdahoDoug