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odd pro-GM editorial in the paper today --

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by erics_bruisers, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. erics_bruisers

    erics_bruisers

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    this guy used to work with my dad at GM -- wtf --

    -- my dad just bought a lexus GS --

    -- there's more to being american than driving around the crappy products that it sometimes spews out, isn't there?

    :|

    e

    ---------------------

    GM's problems caused by lack of patriotism



    7/4/2005



    General Motors plans to cut 25,000 jobs due to slumping sales. There are
    many reasons for this situation, such as gas prices, health care and pension
    costs, etc., but quality and prices are definitely not the reasons.

    GM cars were just rated at the top of the J.D. Power audits for quality.
    Only one Japanese car rated barely higher than that was the Toyota Lexus,
    which is built in Japan. The real problem, in my opinion, is that too many
    Americans have lost interest in supporting other Americans and American
    goods. There doesn't seem to be much interest in national loyalty anymore.



    Even the Buffalo Bills organization has abandoned its GM, Ford and Chrysler
    ticket holders by caving in to the Toyota "puppet merchants." That is a real
    slap in the face for American autoworkers.



    The way it is going now, with your help, and Japan pulling the strings of
    their "puppet merchants," the economy of our country can be brought to a
    screeching halt. When that happens, you can look at your foreign products
    and realize that you helped cause the disaster. Wake up and start acting
    like Americans again. It will soon be too late. "



    Don Rust

    Orchard Park
     
  2. flintknapper

    flintknapper

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    I wish that guy had owned the '96 Tahoe (from hell) that I bought new and regretted for years before finally selling (happiest day of my life).

    He would change his tune then! GM quality sucks IMO, and their customer service is laughable. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER own another one!
     
  3. Cruisin'Carolina

    Cruisin'Carolina

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    That's funny.

    And here I thought it was un-patriotic to produce a car under a socialist-model regime and then sell a real piece of crap to your fellow countrymen.
     
  4. BMAN

    BMAN

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    I wish that guy would've owned my '96 Chrysler that rec'd (all MOPAR parts mind you) 4 transmissions, a new head, 2 headgaskets, a water pump, 3 batteries, 8 sets of brakes, a power steering pump, new injectors and a bunch of electrics before burning to the ground with 65k miles on it in '00. Needless to say I bought my first Toyota, the Taco, and that was all the convincing I needed.
     
  5. gulp3000

    gulp3000

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    If buying the car you want isn't the American way, I don't know what is.
     
  6. Cruiserdrew

    Cruiserdrew On the way there SILVER Star

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    The problem of the JD Power survey is that it looks at 1 year of ownership or 3 years. Most of us, measure durability over much longer spans-like 10 years or more! If GM wants to compete, they need to design their vehicles to be mostly trouble free for 10 years-like the majority of Toyotas. Toyota built their following, market, and loyal customers, by selling a vehicle that was still running great 10 years after it was built. I've owned 8 Toyotas-every single one has been great. I don't think any other manufacturer can match that consistancy. This isn't about Patriotism, it's about vehicle quality you can count on.

    Where Toyota shines is in the upgraded quality of all their little stuff. Their electrical switches and connectors are so good, that most are still working like new 20 years after manufacture. GM's electrical systems are garbage-at least it was in my last (and only) new GM car. Toyota seals likewise last a long long time without leaks. Toyota brake systems are excellent and need only pad replacement to last the life of the car. GM doesn't care about the details, and it's painfully obvious when you own one of their vehicles. They deserve to be run out of the market-their problems are all of their own making.

    Another example is interiors. GM goes for flash, and use materials that look dated and crappy in 4-5 years. Toyota's are much more understated and of better quality. They still look great 10-15 years down the road. Heck, my FJ60 is 21 years old, has travelled 200K miles and the interior is still pretty good looking.

    If GM (or Ford) builds a quality vehicle, and sells it at a competitive price, Americans will buy them. Otherwise, patriotic Americans will make a smart decision and buy a better vehicle with their hard earned cash.
     
  7. firetruck41

    firetruck41

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    Would it be more wrong to buy a piece of crap from GM and throw your money away, instead of supporting your fellow Americans who work at the Toyota Plant in Indiana?
     
  8. Jman

    Jman

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    "Puppet merchants"! Ahhh, ha ha hah ha, thanks, I needed a good laugh.

    Yeah, I'd say the folks at GM have sucked the "Buy American!" well pretty dry by now and realizing they're about to get their collective asses kicked, even by Hyundai.
     
  9. PolterGeist

    PolterGeist

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    That's the problem-- consumerism. On average, most Americans own their cars for about 3 to 4 years. Most of them don't consider things 10 years down the road. Maybe we Land Cruiser owners do, but the rest of America doesn't. With that in mind, is it any wonder that the big 3 design them to last only 4 years???

    The average Volvo owner on the other hand, owns their car for 13 years, and when they eventually do sell, 98% of them get another Volvo. Volvo's current slogan "For Life" is a double entendre-- of course they are touting their long time reputation for safety, but they are also making a play on words from the old saying "once you're a Volvo owner, you're one for life."

    If American consumers demand quality, the companies will produce it--or they will cease to exist. In this country, we buy disposable everything. The stuff your grandparents had to save up for and buy is now available for dirt cheap at any store. The difference is when your grandfather's watch (that he saved 6 months to buy) broke, he fixed it. When his TV (that he saved 6 months for) broke, he got it fixed. Because it meant that much to him, yes-- but also cause IT WAS WORTH FIXING!

    Now, you buy a new watch at Wal-Mart for $25 and a new TV for $139. WHen they break, you buy new ones.

    Demand quality, and reward the companies that produce it by paying a few extra bucks. I guess I'm preaching to the choir here-- you're all toyota owners so I'm sure you get what I'm saying, but I think we should all carry that Toyota quality ethic into everything we buy, not just cars.


    Steve
     
  10. PolterGeist

    PolterGeist

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    Especially if that GM product is made in Mexico? That's another thing I don't get-- Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru are all investing in America by building new plants and engineering facilities here-- while the big three can't fire american workers and open plants in Mexico fast enough.

    Unlike The Big 3, maybe these foreign companies are attuned to the fact that, American workers, when properly motivated, trained, managed and rewarded are capable of producing world-class products in a very cost effective and competitive manner?

    Steve
     
  11. gulp3000

    gulp3000

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    The thing is, $25 dollar watches are a great VALUE. They usually don't last as long (the cheapie on my wrist is 7-8 years old) , but they are inexpensive. Chevys don't hold up as long as other brands, but they are priced like brands that do last. If they were 1/2 -2/3 the price of a Toyota, they would be a good value.
     
  12. Exiled

    Exiled

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    There's a really neat article on this week's Newsweek that talks about GM and the problems it faces. They interview one of their executive officers, a guy who oversaw the resurrection of Cadillac. He actually points out a lot of the stuff that the company has done wrong over the years.

    I was talking to my wife about the article and reading some excerpts when on the TV they announced that Ford is now coming out with their own version of the "employee discount for everyone". I'm sure Chrysler will get drawn into that one too. So GM sales rose 41% last month, but now the dealers don't want to stop the offer, they're afraid people won't buy their cars. Ford launched the program because people *weren't* buying their cars.

    And in the meantime, Toyota and Honda keep selling cars and trucks like hotcakes, with very few incentives, and people lining up at the door. GM needs to give away the Grand Prix, but Honda doesn't even offer any significant discounts on the Accord.

    The funniest thing for me is that the back cover of the Newsweek issue has a full ad for the Toyota Avalon. It talks about the complete redesign, the quieter interior. then it says that it's new super hi-tech V6 has 280 HP, 260 Ft-lbs of torque, goes to 60 MPH in 6.6 seconds, and yields 22 MPG city, 31 on the highway. JEEZ! Talk about the best of ALL worlds. How can the big three compete??

    GM is doomed, it's only a matter of time. And I don't think it's unAmerican to buy a practical, reliable, economical vehicle built by Americans in Alabama, with the profits going to a publicly-traded company that I happen to own stock of. Seems pretty patriotic to me! :)
     
  13. PolterGeist

    PolterGeist

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    My grandfather's Omega that he bought in the 1940s is a better value. He paid the 1940s equivalent of around $600 for it, and wore it till his death in 1997. He passed it on to my father who wore it till his death last month. He passed it to me, and I intend to wear it till my death. With luck, I'll have someone to pass it on to.

    so-- 60 years of use, out of the equivalent of $600 = 10 dollars a year. And it's still going, and every year, that figure drops. Next year it will be 9.84 a year. Small price to pay for an heirloom.

    Steve
     
  14. gulp3000

    gulp3000

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    That's very cool, and you're absolutely right.
     
  15. koop

    koop

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    I hear the GM dealers are hating this program. They still have to pay invoice for the car but GM is giving them a credit to their parts account instead of cash for each car sold under the program. So the dealerships are sitting on 5 years of parts credits and no cash.
     
  16. PolterGeist

    PolterGeist

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    Since the deal is "at participating dealers only" it can't be that bad for them or they wouldn't participate.

    Or maybe they would, since if ABC Chevrolet/Buick didn't participate, the customer would go across town to XYZ Chevrolet/Buick who was...

    Interesting, I'd like to find out more. You have a source on that?

    Steve
     
  17. koop

    koop

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    Just a guy I know in the car buisness that used to manage a GM store and stays in touch with the owner. What I wonder though is what dealers in a GM town like Detroit would do. They have to have been selling every car at employee pricing since forever.
     
  18. drexx

    drexx

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    06Jul2005 (UTC +8)

    I once thought very highly about GMC Suburbans, that I got one to call my own. After all, the American presidents do get a lot of their details correct, right? It was a 1996 with a 6.5 turbo-diesel engine (http://www.laggui.com/4sale/suburban.html). The engine and transmission are all great, but everything else is falling and tearing apart! So I tried trading it in for a Land Cruiser.... nobody wanted the poor thing!

    Finally I saw a 1992 HZJ-80 that was an ex-UN vehicle. The general condition of my Suburban was in far better shape than the 'Cruiser, but I still had to add about US$2,300 for the trade-in! Their value doesnn't hold as well as the 'Cruisers...
     
  19. PolterGeist

    PolterGeist

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    That's cause it's a Cruiser. People will pay as much for a pretty beat up, 15 or 20 year old cruiser than they would for a 5 year old jeep.

    Cause in most cases, a beat up 15 or 20 year old cruiser is still a better vehicle than a 5 year old jeep.

    Just like the example I used before in this thread-- in this area, a 13 year old Volvo in good shape will sell for more than a 4 or 5 year old Chevy Impala. Even though it's older and has more miles, it's still a better car.

    Steve
     
  20. White Shark

    White Shark

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    My father in law just went to a Chevy Dealership and tried to buy a new car. He is not one to screw around and he is an extremely shrewd businessman. He tried to get the price out of them, but they wouldn't budge. It was the "How much are you looking to spend?" routine. After 20 minutes he walked off the lot without ever getting an answer. I told him to stop wasting his time and buy another Toyota.


    I have a friend who is a Ford Finance Manager. He keeps asking me when I'll buy an American made Ford. I told him that the Toyota Camry was more American than the Ford Ranger. Of course this was in front of a crowd and they were all leaning in to listen. I pointed out the fact that:

    The Ranger has,
    A German Engine
    A French Transmission
    Is Assembled in Mexico or Canada

    The Camry has,
    An American built engine
    An American built transmission
    Is Built in Kentucky or one of a few other U.S. States

    The Camry also has a higher U.S. parts content as well.

    As such, the Camry is the American Made Car that benefits American Workers and the UAW. He got irritated, dropped the subject and won't touch it with a 10' pole.

    I won't touch a new vehicle unless it is a Toyota/Lexus, or Honda/Acura product. I would consider Nissan/Infiniti though.

    GM has built a few good things, i.e. the 454, the 350, etc., but I wouldn't touch anything built in the last few years. Too many electronics and a propensity for failure. The 350 in my cruiser is great. The Cruiser is a 92 and the handbuilt 350 tbi is a really basic, very solid design. I'd be nervous getting anything short of a handbuilt or high quality High Performance Crate Engine. Anything off the general assembly line would scare me.